E12: William Stokes

Richard Hill:
Hi everyone, it's Richard at eCom@One, the eCommerce podcast. And today's guest is Will Stokes. So, Will I met probably about two years ago, maybe a bit less than that, actually. Will's a very well-known young entrepreneur in Lincolnshire. And it was probably two years ago when I first met him. I had no clue who he was, whatsoever, but a very confident young man. And I thought, "Who's this guy?"
Richard Hill:
And spoke to a few of my friends who knew Will. And over the years had a few more chats with Will, and we're working on some projects with Will and with the agency. And yeah, that's why I thought it would be great to get Will on the podcast. And got a lot of experience in the digital world, and the creative digital world, and business entrepreneurship, and I think it would be just good to come from a young entrepreneur, or younger entrepreneur's angle, some of the things that Will's achieved in quite a short space of time, good to dive into them.
Richard Hill:
So, how are doing Will? Are you okay?
William Stokes:
I'm really good. I'm really good. Thanks for having me.
Richard Hill:
No problem at all. So, I think it would be good to kick off, to give us a bit of a kick off where it all started really. So eCom@One, the eCommerce podcast, I know now you're doing quite a few different things, but I think your early days, eCommerce was right at the top of the list?
William Stokes:
It was. It was. So, I'm not really too eCommy now, as you'll know. Obviously, we're working together on some stuff, which is amazing. My first venture into the world of business, bar the things that I did at school that are typical kind of kids' things, where you're trying to make money and things like that, and you're out there hustling, was when I was 17, started what is now known as the drop ship model style of business.
William Stokes:
We was at college and had no clue what we were doing. As you do, those days, you don't know what you don't know. And we started this business, we were buying electrical goods from China. If Argos was selling an LCD TV at £800, we were coming in and selling it at £650. I didn't understand margins, and I thought a 10% margin is good enough for growth, and you can build a sustainable business on that. And the reality is, you can't.
Richard Hill:
So, you're importing?
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
How old were you when you started importing, then?
William Stokes:
17, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Wow. That's, yeah.
William Stokes:
Yeah. And it was, I had no choice, I had no cash to do it with, so I had no choice. So, I had to go out to all these manufacturers and distributors, and say, "Look, this is the situation of our business. If you hold the stock, I'll pay you 10% above base, or above what"-
Richard Hill:
What they would normally charge?
William Stokes:
Yeah, what you'd normally charge. If you hold the stock, and I'll send you an address to send it to. You slip this file in that's got our details in-
Richard Hill:
Oh, so they were literally doing one order at a time for you?
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
From China?
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Oh wow.
William Stokes:
But I was saying to them that I would guarantee them X amount of orders. Now, I had no idea how many I was going to sell, but I was saying to them, "Look, I'll guarantee you 200 orders this month." Things like that.
William Stokes:
So, yeah, and it rocketed.
Richard Hill:
So it went well?
William Stokes:
It went really well. And there was just me and a lad called Jordan who started it together.
Richard Hill:
So how did you find those suppliers in the first place, then? How did that happen?
William Stokes:
Literally, online.
Richard Hill:
Yeah?
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, it was before I knew of kind of Ali Express, but there was things like that I was finding.
Richard Hill:
It was like an equivalent-
William Stokes:
And contacting.
Richard Hill:
It wasn't Ali Express, but it was just sort of a site with Chinese suppliers listed, and-
William Stokes:
Exactly that.
William Stokes:
I made the mess of not realizing that these Chinese suppliers probably speak better English than I do, so I was using some translate software to put it all into Chinese, send it across and it made no sense. Yeah, but we got there. And over nine months we had this entire journey and at the end of it we were kind of thinking, "Oh, we want to grow this, let's get some advice." And we got some advice, and the advice was get rid, because we just hadn't structured things right. We hadn't done anything right. We were overly exposed, something had of gone wrong, and things were starting to go wrong, because we had taken that growth and we hadn't built the stuff behind that we now know that we need to do.
Richard Hill:
Returns, margins.
William Stokes:
Yeah, and we didn't have a sustainable business model. So, the advice was get rid and that scared me off the world of entrepreneurship for three years.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, no I think there's a couple of things there. I think reaching out, but having the balls or the foresight to say, "Right, I need someone just to look at this and give me some help." Or have a sounding board, because quite often with eCommerce I think it's a lot of money can be moving around, a lot of stuff's coming in if you're warehousing, and you've got stock in the warehouse, oh yeah we've got a hundred grand in the warehouse, or a million quid in the warehouse, and a hundred orders a day. We must be making money. Well, the reality is it can be very, very different, the complete opposite two times out of 10. So, better just stepping back and looking at the margins, looking at how things are doing, but I think obviously fair play at 17 years old and made that move, which I think knowing you as I do is very much what you're about. Making some fairly bold moves.
William Stokes:
Yeah, you've got to speculate to accumulate.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, you learn from and you take that knowledge and then you take it into the next venture, next thing, but you're not afraid to give it a go and push. So, that was your first... So, that's what 10 years ago now? Isn't it?
William Stokes:
It will be yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Practically, yeah, yeah, you're 27 now, aren't you?
William Stokes:
Yeah, so I have this weird view, and people think I'm crazy. I'm happy to take the risk and start something and sink 10, 15 grand into it, if it goes wrong and I lose that over a space of a year and a half I've probably learnt more than people that are paying nine grand a year in education. That's my view. So, if I can make something out of it, great, but if I can learn all these steps along the way to take forward-
Richard Hill:
The whole education degree thing for me is you do your four years at uni, average what 50K debt, when you come out…
William Stokes:
Yeah, something like that yeah. I dropped out of uni.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
William Stokes:
Ay.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. So, you didn't do the... So, you started, but you decided to-
William Stokes:
I started, I did one year, at the end of my first year I left. Yeah, and so along the background of doing all this, my background's engineering, so my family have been engineers, I've kind of got not pushed down that route, but I was encouraged down that route.
Richard Hill:
that's what we do for our parents and-
William Stokes:
Yeah, so I was doing mechanical engineering at university and I was more interested in getting on and earning, and my role at the company at the time was to train the graduates that came in. And these guys were three, four years older than me, and earning less money than I was at the time. So, I suddenly started to have this wake up call that was like, "Well, I'm spending a day a week plus in the classroom and I'm not enjoying it, and there's no actual real practical benefit now." There's flip sides to that which is as I've got older I've always liked the whole development thing, and I'd go back and do an MBA, something like that. I don't know.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, but more from a personal point of view rather than an academic point of view.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah more from a can I do it
Richard Hill:
Not as much what you're going to learn, it's more pushing yourself.
William Stokes:
Yeah, 100%.
Richard Hill:
To can I do this, yeah? And learn some stuff, but more people you'll meet, experience.
William Stokes:
Exactly that. I don't think there's anything that if I didn't apply myself 100% I couldn't achieve. And I've always had that kind of ethos which is quite...
Richard Hill:
Yeah, I think that's a brilliant ethos to have.
William Stokes:
It is, but then it's also a troubling one because then you think, "Oh, great, I've got to tackle this and do it."
Richard Hill:
What's the boundaries, what's the, okay you can do anything, but then the reality is not everything works, so it's having that... How do you then know when to walk away or when you know when to move to a new thing.
William Stokes:
Yeah, and what do you want to do? I mean, people ask me now for business advice, what would you do if I was in your shoes? My advice is simple, find something you love and feel like you could do every day. If I said to you can do anything and you're never going to get paid to do it, what would you do? Go do that, be the best in it, and then figure out who in that space has monetized it, and do that. Somebody's already wrote the playbook. There's nothing new nowadays.
Richard Hill:
Almost, yeah.
William Stokes:
Yeah, exactly. For your business it's the same. Find someone that's in the eComm sector that is excelling, like listening to you on this podcast, and replicate what they've done. It's not hard.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, no when you say it like that I agree. And I think-
William Stokes:
It's just having the discipline.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so you're very focused on new projects at the moment? You've got... Moving on 10 years almost So you did the drop shipping, obviously I know what you're doing now, we'll come to that. So, the 10 year, what's the maybe two minute version of the last 10 years then?
William Stokes:
Yeah, so engineering sector, started on the shop floor at 15, got work experience through a little engineering firm in Alford where I lived.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, oh Skegness way.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah, cricket club in the middle.
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
William Stokes:
So, I was sweeping the floors.
Richard Hill:
That's bizarre. I actually remember going there when I was about 18 and camping on the cricket field.
William Stokes:
Oh wow.
Richard Hill:
Behind the cricket field.
William Stokes:
Yeah, that was my childhood. So yeah sweeping the floors, doing whatever needed to be done. They offered me a Saturday job then they offered me work after school. So, when I left school I went straight into there, then I went to a college and when I worked for that company there was always a guy that was the manager and he was always in the top office, and I always used to see him doing the CAD stuff, and I always said to myself if I got into CAD I'd always have a career. I looked at what the guys are doing and thought, "That's easy, I could do that." So, I went and did night school with CAD and also college. I paid for night school myself, actually, I saved and paid for that, yeah. And then went and did CAD and ended up having a career in CAD for a big energy company.
Richard Hill:
I didn't know that.
William Stokes:
Yeah. That's how I started, and then I've probably doing that... So, I worked for one company for two and a half years doing that, and that was a weird one because the first day I walked in there was a trailer in the factory, and they said, "Can you design this?" I said, "What do you mean design this? It's built." They said, "Yeah, we just built it, we haven't designed it." So, I had almost back engineer it-
Richard Hill:
So it was the finished product, create the designs.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah that was a challenge, yeah, yeah. And that was great. And I was probably 18, 19 at the time, this was not long after walking away from the eComm stuff. So, I went and did that and then I joined the energy company that I ended up working for for a number of years. And they said, "Look we've got an opening in project.
Richard Hill:
Doing design for them? On CAD?
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah. Doing design, yeah. They said, "We think you're a little bit wasted here, we've got an opening in the projects team." Which was a project engineer role, which is a bridge between a designer and the project manager. So I said, "Yeah, yeah absolutely." I'm a big believer in always say yes then figure out how to do it after, like Richard Branson kind of philosophy. So, I took that, did that. And then it was a weird circumstance and the bit that came after that was something you could never experience if you thought you were going to, and you could never figure it out as a career trajectory, but I ended up getting stuck on a refinery site working as a project engineer and doing a bit of PMing. And I was working alongside this older guy who was a PM and he literally was just... Like he wasn't interested, if that makes sense. And he left, and I said, "Look I'll pick up on some of the stuff he's doing." So, I picked up on doing his stuff, and the end result was I ended up taking over a role where I was dealing with that.
William Stokes:
And then about probably the last I'd say three or four months I realized it was very political, and I was like, "I don't really want to be doing this anymore." So, I saw an opportunity to leave and there was something that happened that ended up with me leaving which was great, and then met a guy called Nick who had a company that was 50 people and wanted to expand. And I went did a year to the day with Nick, and we took the company from... You know, not just me and him, but there was a group of us that did it, and we took it from 50 to 150, 160 people in a year. We won some major clients.
Richard Hill:
What do they do?
William Stokes:
They did composites for rail and boats, things like that. So, if you imagine when you walk on a train you've got the what look like fiber glass panels, they're composite panels and they built those. And we were trying to get in with a big rail company that we couldn't have got in with for years, and me and Nick spent the time and put it in and won the job.
Richard Hill:
So s lot of what you were doing there then was the bigger thinking, trying to get him into bigger companies, sales, business development?
William Stokes:
Yeah, I always term it as more operational. Yeah. I've always been fairly operational with that stuff. And then alongside that for about the last year I'd been chatting with my uncle who was in property, and he was board of directors at Mighty, and was exiting and was doing a lot of property development stuff. So we got chatting, I hadn't known him really too long at that point.
Richard Hill:
Your uncle?
William Stokes:
Yeah, we'd only met not long before, and we had been chatting and formed this relationship and he said, "Why don't you come and be a part of what we're doing?" Ended up going and doing that and that evolved into what then became us co-founding. Group as a developer and then me leaving in April last year to focus on Co Space because that really took off. I launched it at a side project-
Richard Hill:
Co Space.
William Stokes:
Yeah. Because what we did was as a group was we took commercial units on industrial estates, high streets, wherever, and turned them into apartments. And I was looking at the way the market was shifting going, "Well, actually there's a better model for these in terms of reusing office space." Because developers are taking commercial units-
Richard Hill:
Commercial into resi.
William Stokes:
Yeah, and there's an under supply of office space. So, I thought I reckon I could do something. I was a member of a company down in London, big popular one who you'll know of. And I thought, "There's nothing like this outside of London. Well, I'll do that." So, I started having a look at it and met Ali and we started having chats, and it didn't go anywhere for maybe nine months, and then all of a sudden it just rocketed. And that left me leaving there in April and focusing on what is now Co Space.
Richard Hill:
And brings you up pretty much to today.
William Stokes:
That's a bit longer than two minutes, but we're there.
Richard Hill:
So, Co Space started as a side project. But I know, obviously we've had a lot of discussions and we're working on some projects with you and the team around some very glam plans, very exciting plans. So Co Space started but from my point of view was a test project in Lincoln, opened what we call coworking space. Which is what I'm in, I'm in where I'm recording this podcast now, we have offices within a coworking space. There's coworking space here for about 80, 100 people I think. And the various offices and various spaces, creative spaces for meetings. But in effect you're building a brand, you're a year into building a brand.
William Stokes:
So, the business is two and a half years old.
Richard Hill:
Sorry, yeah, yeah.
William Stokes:
As Co Space, in the Co Space form it's a year and a half, but as the company structure it's two and a half years in.
Richard Hill:
Two and a half years in from inception.
William Stokes:
From inception to delivery.
Richard Hill:
You've made some quite bold moves, I would say.
William Stokes:
Yeah. So it's funny because they are in the last year, but those bold moves have been two years in the making. So, I mean, we just
Richard Hill:
Which people maybe don't see, they just go from whoa what?
William Stokes:
Well, I've been talking about a project that we're doing down in Redding for about the last two years, and we just exchanged on that. And I put a post out saying 20 months. I actually tracked it back, it's almost nearly 24 months from the point where we viewed that site and agreed a deal, to the point where we actually exchanged the-
Richard Hill:
So, what I'm intrigued about and I think everyone will be intrigued about, you've had this initial idea which is to create a coworking space company, a coworking company, coworking space company, is that right? It sounds a bit of a mouthful. And you create one, a test bed for how many people come and work in the one in Lincoln?
William Stokes:
26.
Richard Hill:
So, 26.
William Stokes:
Yeah, small.
Richard Hill:
And then your next project which is about to launch is how many people?
William Stokes:
So, Redding is just under 200... 198.
Richard Hill:
So, that's quite a step up isn't it? In an area that's a lot more expensive. So how do you go from probably a... That's scale straight away, I know there's a lot more to it than that, but so in terms of how do you finance something like that? How do you-
William Stokes:
Well, that's what I should have done.
Richard Hill:
How do you get from a... Maybe it's in an eCommerce point of view, how do you go from one year doing a hundred orders a day to two years later doing 100,000 orders a day? Because that's almost what we're talking about, we're talking millions of pounds worth of investment.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah. 100%.
Richard Hill:
We're talking about a lot of more people involved, you're talking about an area that you're not familiar with, as in a location you're not familiar with, I think. Because you're Lincolnshire.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah no, yeah. So, I mean, it's funny, so the Redding deal was brought to us by an agent who we work very closely with who said, "You guys will be perfect for this site." So, we met, spoke about what we'd done in the UK.
Richard Hill:
So, how did happen just from your networking, being out there?
William Stokes:
Yeah, so he reached out, I think he reached out to us initially and said let's have a coffee, have a chat, because they have two sides to their business. One side is they deal with the acquisition side, and another guy who's part of the business called Douglas deals with the disposable side, and he's sold multiple flexible workspaces. We term them as flexible workspaces as opposed to coworking. So, he's sold multiple flexible workspace and operated businesses. And we just met and started having a chat, and we were talking about this... Our model changed.
William Stokes:
When me and Ali wrote the original business plan we were going to pick up on 4000 to 8000 square foot units. And you look at Lincoln now which is 2000 square foot. And we suddenly realized that actually the economics don't change a massive amount, but the actual margins change when you ramp up to a certain number, and that number for us is around the 20,000 square foot mark. So, we took a view and said, "Well, actually, why don't we do these sites that are in this sweet spot somewhere around the 15 mark?" If I put that into context Redding is 13,500 square foot, and Stevenage is 16,000 square foot. So, there is 30,000 square foot across two sites there, near enough.
Richard Hill:
Redding's nearly live, a couple of months away, or by the time people listen to this you'll be live I think, because it will be mid-April, May.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah, it will be yeah.
Richard Hill:
And then Stevenage is when, sorry?
William Stokes:
Stevenage is September.
Richard Hill:
September, so…?
William Stokes:
And that's the drop dead date, so we think it's actually going to be August. Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. So, 30,000 square feet this year?
William Stokes:
Yeah, well, yeah.
William Stokes:
I was going to say there's another site that I can't talk about at the minute, the reason I can't talk about it is we've agreed to purchase, but we're waiting on final sign off and some final legals to go through. But that's a 22,000 square foot site.
Richard Hill:
So, you go to 52,000 ish square feet, which more than likely will be done. So, those people that are listening in will think, "Well how do you do that?" So, going back, so they gave you the nod initially on the Redding site, said, "Oh, I think you guys might be interested this." But obviously then packaging that and putting that together.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah, well we panicked.
Richard Hill:
Most people would run away and go, "Oh my god, I've been offered this, I've been offered that." How do you think that through? How do you make that happen? Because you're talking raising millions of pounds worth of you know-
William Stokes:
Yeah, well it's funny, yeah. Sorry to jump in. It's funny because we rejected that deal about four times. We said no and I said, "No, don't work for us." And he said, "I really want you to come see this site". And went back and said, "I don't know Redding. I don't know the area". The question you raised a minute ago. And it went back and forth and he called me up and he said, "Look, I just want you to come down". He says, "Honestly, I'm showing other guys around this site and I'm thinking, this is perfect for your brand".
Richard Hill:
This is the agent?
William Stokes:
Yeah. Because he can't just show us around, right? He has to show around and then what you tend to do is bid on a space, which what we did with Stevenage and we were very fortunate to win it. We didn't think we were going to. So he said, "Look, why don't you just come down? Have a meet. I'll show you the area". I went around and met with loads of brokers and loads of agents and started to get a feel for the area, and I turned around and I went, "Holy cow". You know, I stopped myself then... "Holy cow. We need this site". I ran the figures and I met with the agents and I was like, "Wow, we'd be foolish not to do this site actually".
Richard Hill:
Location, financials are like, "Wow".
William Stokes:
Yeah, and Ali... I mean you've met Ali. So Ali has already built a business and sold it-
Richard Hill:
So Ali's your business partner?
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, and you've known him for quite some time?
William Stokes:
I've known Ali for about four, five years now.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
William Stokes:
So me and Ali met because Ali's in the VC world, and when I was doing I started doing some little investment things. And we were both involved in the same business. We met, started chatting, I told him about what I'm doing with the small business, because he was kind of... I was setting that up as I was chatting to him and we were friends, he was like, "Ooh, I'll watch what you do with that and we'll talk about this other idea" and that was what became Co Space. So Ali's already been there, I mean he business in 2015 for more money than God has, really. And he'll tell you, "When you're in that world, VC's own the majority of it and you own a small percentage". So actually a small percentage of this big number is a pretty normal number. But still, I mean, he got out. So he reassures me, because I sit there and I'm like, "Ali, this Redding deal. The cost of the monthly outgoings on this building is more than my salary, than I've ever paid myself over.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah. And you go for a year. And he reassures me, he's like, "Look, we're trying to build this business to be worth"-
Richard Hill:
And you're signing five year leases or whatever it is.
William Stokes:
10. 10 with
Richard Hill:
10 year leases, so you times that by 10. It's quite scary.
William Stokes:
Yeah. And he keeps me on the straight. And he talks me through. And I talk him through some bits, and he talks me through some bits.
Richard Hill:
So a big thing there is the partnership. Sounds like... You've got a certain set of skills. And so has Ali got a certain set of skills.
William Stokes:
Ali's on fire, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Quite obviously you're more operational.
William Stokes:
Yeah. I've fell into more operational roles. I'm more the deliverance side and Ali's very much the commercial backend side, if that makes sense.
Richard Hill:
Financials...
William Stokes:
Yeah. So he looks after that piece, I look after my piece.
Richard Hill:
So in terms of raising the finance then, that's come via Ali's connections more?
William Stokes:
Well it's come from both actually. So we run this deal initially and said, "All right, actually we need this much funding to do it." And then we created an IM and we sent it out and we got a few nibbles and-
Richard Hill:
What's an IM for those that are listening?
William Stokes:
So investment memorandum. So similar to a pitch deck, but a bit more top level. I mean ours way 35 pages of detailed analysis on the market-
Richard Hill:
So more case driven, more marketable numbers as opposed to marketing?
William Stokes:
Yeah, absolutely. Because we're not marketing guys. So if you look at that, you'll think, "Oh there's no marketing in this really." But we go into actual real figures and things. And we both were like, "Look, let's push this out." And we met with several institutions, several investors, and the response was always the same, "This is an amazing business. We're going to write you a cheque after you've done two or three sites." And that was always the response.
Richard Hill:
Not to start, not going to help you to start.
William Stokes:
Not going to do it at the start.
Richard Hill:
This is proven.
William Stokes:
Yeah. And we managed to meet quite a few people that we managed to convince to invest, and then we met Paul who is now a shareholder in the business and the lead investor, almost.
Richard Hill:
So these investors, how did you meet them?
William Stokes:
So my background's obviously property development anyway, and most of that is funded through investors. So my investor network came through those guys.
Richard Hill:
So people listening in that are maybe, you know, I think it's very relevant for eCommerce as well, any business that you're trying to scale. If you want to go to another level, there's a few options isn't there? You can buy a competitor, you can buy a business and see opportunities there, you can get investment, you can get internal investment, external investment but I think where to start with that investment. If you know people, great, but if you don't know anybody... I met you in networking, you've talked a lot about and property but like, somebody that's starting out, looking to try and raise a million pounds in a certain industry, what would be a good first step or two for them, do you think?
William Stokes:
It's a really good question. It's find people that are doing it in your area and are very good at it. So for instance, there's a guy that I met recently, I won't name him. He's worth hundreds of millions doing some huge property development schemes and I just reached out to him. Sent him a message, said "This is what I'm trying to do, this is what I'm trying to achieve. Can we have a meet?" And we met and had a chat. I don't know but he'll be there-
Richard Hill:
But he may have two million to him-
William Stokes:
Yeah. But it's more than that. He's there for council and guidance. So when I'm having a bit of a problem, he's had that problem. So it opens a doorway to the future. So if I was to say, "I've never met an investor that has invested inside of a year. Every investor that I've spoken to, I've spoken to them a year before they even wrote a cheque." And not because I've done it like that. Because no one's going to invest from the minute you meet them.
Richard Hill:
But between that point of them meeting you and maybe a year, 18 months has gone, you've then no doubt met them again, had coffee, had a chat about this and they think, "God this guy does nice stuff. Oh he's asking all the right questions. He knows this guy, he knows these people. Oh he's done that project." And each touchpoint is just going towards an overall picture of you and your idea and your vision.
William Stokes:
Well I do it subliminally as well. I mean, we did it a lot in, I knew guys that would have cheque for the amount that we needed, and I just sent them an email saying, "I'm about to go out for investment. I'd really appreciate your feedback on this. Before I send it out, I just want to make sure that it's within the realm of what typical investors will look at. I know you're in that space, can you give me some feedback?" And nine times out of 10, they all came back and said, "Actually, I'm interested in this. Can we have a chat?"
Richard Hill:
So having the balls to go... Try not to swear on this podcast,
William Stokes:
Balls is okay.
Richard Hill:
Balls is okay, is it yeah? But just going out and having the confidence.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
I think that's why everything, really-
William Stokes:
Well, it's sink or swim for me. This is my livelihood, really. I always talk with my partner Jess, who you've also met, and I always say, "The one thing I have is my youth". Like I can lose everything tomorrow, and within a year I'm back doing something I enjoy. And I always have this philosophy, and hopefully I never have to do it, but this is what I'd do... If I lost everything tomorrow, I'd figure out what it is I wanted to do. What I enjoyed. I'd research it, I'd read some books in that sector, and then I'd knock on 1,000 doors in the nicest states. I'd go down that road, I'd knock on all them doors, and I'd say "This is what I'm doing. This is what I want to achieve. Can you help or can I have some advice?" And out of a thousand people I reckon, at least one person will say yes and be in that sector, and if they didn't I'd go again. Because every no gets close to a yes. It's just having that resilience to take those hits.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, and just keep going, keep going, keep going.
William Stokes:
And I quite enjoy that. Because if I come to someone and they say yes straight away I'm almost like, "Ah, actually there's no challenge there." And that sounds weird, but the no is actually to keep you on course.
Richard Hill:
So on that track of knocking on a lot of doors. So you're 10 years in, you're still only 27 which is crazy.
William Stokes:
28 this year though.
Richard Hill:
20, oh 28.
William Stokes:
Getting older.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. And so, what would you say is one of the biggest things you wish you'd known before you started this journey? Or maybe around one of the biggest mistakes, one of the things that could've really helped you steer maybe in a slightly different direction that you didn't know, but you wish you'd known?
William Stokes:
It's funny, because I was having this conversation the other day. There's a really good quote that's one of my favorite quotes that says, "Most people are too afraid to start because they don't want to be seen working from the bottom". And I wish I'd been more open about the days when I was starting, because I stayed hidden, and having looked back now, there's loads of people that I've met that I could've gone to for advice in those early days and I would've done it 10 times quicker. But because I didn't want to seem like a newbie, I didn't want to seem like I didn't know the things that I didn't know. And I've come to learn that the things that I don't know are actually really good, because all I need to do is figure out who does know it, and go and ask them.
Richard Hill:
And get chatting to them and find out.
William Stokes:
Yeah. And to focus. If you're good at one out of 10 things, focus on that one thing and don't try and be okay at the other nine. There's other people that can do those. And that's what we do with our business, which is, I don't have any interest in Ali's piece, I have bottom level understanding of it and I can interpret the numbers and I know the figures, but he is just so into that and he loves it. I don't need to worry about it. So it's A, finding the people that have the skills that I don't, and B, I wish I'd just asked for help sooner. Because there's so many people out there that, for the sake of £5 for a coffee.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. And we haven't known each other that long, but it does seem like you know a lot of people. And all the people I know that you don't probably even know I know, know you.
William Stokes:
Okay. I think networking is everything. 100%.
Richard Hill:
So listening to all the things you're saying there, you've got real resilience to just get yourself out there, real resilience to ask for help, and big thinking. Huge thinking. right. And I know we talked about two, three, two occasions, third one more than likely, that you actually vision for the next three years for Co Space it's-
William Stokes:
20 sites, yeah.
Richard Hill:
20 sites. So that's-
William Stokes:
We need to get to seven. Seven's our sweet spot. At seven we can get some real good scales of economy and the margin's just go up another 5% at that level. We can get it to 2030, we're a dominant force then, and then we make the choice of, do we take on a big cheque to grow it and accept that's the way, or do we exit, or do we go, "Actually, let's keep it where it is and see what we get."
Richard Hill:
Well I can't wait to see where that goes, and obviously I'm looking forward to being part of that, yeah, because we're obviously working on some stuff together to get the brands out there and to get the locations out there. Okay, so you've obviously got a podcast as well for the guys listening in. You've been podcasting now for...
William Stokes:
18 months.
Richard Hill:
18 months already? Yeah.
William Stokes:
Do you know the story?
Richard Hill:
No.
William Stokes:
It's so funny. Do you know what? I look at my life, and I look back, and I always see missed opportunities. And it's not because I've missed them, it's because I've got other things going on. And when I was at school I always wanted to start what is now a podcast. And it's called 'What's With This Week?', and it's with Sam, who I do the podcast with. We were literally going to talk about stuff in the news. We were kids, all right, we were like 16-
Richard Hill:
This is before the drop ship business?
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah. And we were going to talk about things that were in the news this week and make comedy out of it, and be like kids doing it. And I just know that everyone in our school, and everyone in every other school, would've just loved that.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah. So you talked about it then, and now you're doing it now?
William Stokes:
Yeah. And I didn't know enough about it then, and I wish I'd researched it more and done it. But we just missed that. And then me and Sam kept meeting in bars to chat about business ideas-
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Is Sam in property as well?
William Stokes:
Well he, ish. So he's got some property stuff he's doing but his is a online platform, which is for finding student accommodation.
Richard Hill:
Okay, yeah.
William Stokes:
But it's all lifestyle driven, there's this whole backend to it. And we were just meeting every week or so, having these chats, and I was like, "We should just record these chats. I bet other people are having these same issues that we're having." And that's where it grew from.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
William Stokes:
I literally bought the gear and I said, "Do you know what? Let's do it." I said, "It's not hard to do."
Richard Hill:
It's surprising, isn't it? I think it's something that we've looked at for quite some time and-
William Stokes:
And your reach. Like, there's people message me on Instagram that I have never met, ever. They have no mutual followers and they listen to our podcast.
Richard Hill:
And they're reaching out to you?
William Stokes:
Yeah. And they're like, "Ah, what was that book that you recommended?" Which is funny, because it was the book Yeah, and things like that. And we get 3,000…
Richard Hill:
I'm excited to see where this goes, I have to admit.
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
It's still very early in our journey-
William Stokes:
Well you because you've got knowledge and you'll be miles ahead.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, I'm pretty excited to see where it will go. I think some of the guests we've got on, obviously yourself included, have got some crazy reach as well. And yeah. We'll see where it goes but we're hoping to get the man Jeff on one day.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Jeff Bezos. He started in eComm, sold a few books online, 20 odd years ago.
William Stokes:
Yeah. Have you seen the meme of him where it says, "What do you sell?", he goes, "I sell books", and that was like 1996. And it says like, 2020, "What do you sell?", and he's like, "I sell whatever I want."
Richard Hill:
Whatever I want.
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
I've seen the pictures of him before and after.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah. He's a machine.
Richard Hill:
A bit of a machine.
William Stokes:
But he's similar, in a sense, to me and you which is, he's not thinking about this year and next year, he's thinking about 10 years time ahead. And then he's executing to get to those steps. He's not bothered about what's happening next, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
William Stokes:
Which is, I think, the perfect way to be…
Richard Hill:
So what's the podcast called again, for the guys listening in?
William Stokes:
Business Over Beers.
Richard Hill:
Business Over Beers.
William Stokes:
Yeah, www.bob.co.uk.
Richard Hill:
Okay, brilliant.
William Stokes:
All the handles will be up there.
Richard Hill:
So I think when we go live you'll be on about episode 45, somewhere there? So there's obviously lots to go out there. A lot of a mix there, but a lot of entrepreneurial, marketing chat.
William Stokes:
Yeah. I mean, probably one of the biggest names to date was Charlie Sampson, former CEO of Saatchi & Saatchi. He was in your kind of space and he was amazing.
Richard Hill:
I have not listened to that one, I will. So, eCommerce, we're going to go back to... I think a lot of the guys listening may be starting their journey, they may be 100 orders a day then a thousand orders a day and a whole mix, but what would you say to people that are just looking to start out? You know, they're just looking to get going. What would your one bit of advice be to some of those that are thinking of dipping their toe and maybe thinking, "Do you know what? I'm not going to do the uni thing", or "Do you know what? I'm going to hand my notice in." Obviously go steady with that one, but what would your advice be to those that are thinking of-
William Stokes:
Yeah. It's funny because your sector, like kind of eCommerce sector blows my mind because what you do is you quantify value based on product as opposed to by time put in. So you can go and work for, let's say, six quid now and you can make 50 odd quid a day. You can sell five products and make that in a day, and you don't really have to do much. And then you scale that. So my advice is, research the area that you're doing to sell in, make sure you understand that market, and you almost want to learn over the next five years and become the expert in that market so people come to you, like you've done with this stuff. People come to you. They think, you know, SEO, it's in your name so you're quite lucky. They come to you, Ecom One, they come to you. So you want to become well known in that sector, but to do that you need to take those first steps. And the you just want to start and test small, and test different things, and then the ones that work, ramp them up slightly but keep the other stuff burning. Because, we talked about it before, trends change and you've got to try and pick a trend verse a fad. And you can end up plowing a lot of spend from marketing or products or whatever-
Richard Hill:
Trends v fads, that's a great-
William Stokes:
Into fads, and actually you need to pick the trends. Yeah, because trends will last years. A fad will last a couple of months.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, fad, isn't it?
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Because you're going to get hit with the stock, you're going to ..
William Stokes:
100%. Look at fidget spinners. You would've thought fidget spinners were the perfect thing to sell, and they lasted, what? Three months?
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Low cost, easy to ship.
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Spend a grand, you probably got 5,000 of them in your warehouse but then, oh, you're stuck with them because they're in and out, yeah.
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
That was a very quick one, wasn't it?
William Stokes:
Yeah. And looking at what you can sell. I know a little bit in terms of the Amazon... I can't remember what it's called, the
Richard Hill:
Drop ship?
William Stokes:
Yeah, what do they call it though? They've got a name for it, haven't they? The Amazon drop ship.
William Stokes:
Seller, yeah. I know if you don't sell product you don't get charged for it being stuck in the warehouses.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah.
William Stokes:
Yeah. So making sure you can sell the products and at the same time... And this is interesting, because I've looked a little bit into eCommerce and we looked at this back then. Which was, we would have a product that was, say, 800 quid and we'd mark it down to 650, and if we were getting close to running out of stock, we're in the last 10%, we'd raise it up to 750, slow those sales, and then when more product came in we'd then ramp up those sales again.
Richard Hill:
Based on stock levels, and-
William Stokes:
Yeah, because the last thing you want to do is go, sold out. The minute you go sold out, people lose interest and they go to your competitor. If the price is a little bit higher, they save it to their bag or to their wish list and then.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. So trends versus fads, love that. So getting started we study, which is free. Obsess over a category, a sub category within products or within the niche. It doesn't have to be eComm, and obviously in your case is eComm but in terms of getting started, obsess with, understanding, getting to know the key players in the industry, then building those relationships which can be quite challenging, quite daunting can't it? Saying, "Right, we're going to start the new fidget spinner." I don't know what that is at the moment, I can't think which one that would be but there's all these expos on around the country, and obviously a bit further afield if you've got the budget to travel to say, Germany, a lot of big expos in Europe where we can go to. Obviously you can soon get to know people. I think it's having that confidence. I think there's nothing better than what they don't teach so well at school, they didn't when I was a child, it's definitely a lot better now, is that communication.
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Lots of what you've talked about there is your network and people you've got to know, and obviously an unrelenting confidence. But without some key partners and some key council, guidance, so sort of having that. You know, I look at my kids, my kids are 12 and 15, I know you've met them, and they're great, I'm pretty confident, but I just know the value of being able to talk to people, to be able to communicate to people, rather than and just stare at a book all day. Obviously you need to have some book smarts absolutely.
William Stokes:
You need a balance, yeah.
Richard Hill:
I think having the ability to network. I've seen you at events, and I've seen you work a room, it's impressive to see.
William Stokes:
Is it? Ah, nice. Nice. I've always been this big believer that I can get along with anyone. There's a guy who's big in the development world and he's worth north of a billion and I literally reached out to him and I managed to get another connection through someone else who I knew who knew of him, and managed to get on his radar, and then I went and met him. And I literally walked into the room with this guy who was in trainers, chinos, shirt and jumper, and he's worth that, and we just chatted. And the thing that I learnt about him and people in that level is they're direct. They don't have time. You've got to know your answers and you've got to deliver the answer, because by the time you're halfway through the answer, he's already asked another question. And he was very much like that. And actually, you kind of think, "Oh, he's being a bit rude" but he actually isn't, he just values time and he understands time.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, you've got to respect that.
William Stokes:
100%. So I was quick on my spot and he took he around his sites and we ended up becoming fairly close and stayed in touch.
Richard Hill:
Wow. So to move on to Instagram. Now when we first met a couple years back, a brief conversation and that was that really at a networking event, we were doing quite different things but I knew you knew a lot of people I knew and so forth. I think we added each other on Instagram like you do-
William Stokes:
We did. And LinkedIn.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, and LinkedIn, yeah. But on Instagram, you're very active, aren't you?
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
You put a lot of stuff on there about obviously your journey in business and your obsession with coffee, and you know, what you're up to, and I think it'd be interested just to talk about that for a few minutes, because I'm not a personally, as an agency obviously we're very much marketing a lot of brands, but me personally, I'm quite a private person. Not massively, but I choose not to put too much of my personal life on social, I just choose not to. But you are the complete opposite on Insta. So Instagram for you has been quite a success?
William Stokes:
Yeah, Instagram's been really good. I've been very fortunate in the sense of the amount of people I've been able to get out through that, I think everybody in the last year has been hit with Instagram since the algorithm changed and you end up having tenths of the viewership, almost. And a lot of things, you're having to push down promoted posts now, which is fine, happy days, I recognize that.
Richard Hill:
Everything is more paid.
William Stokes:
Yeah, exactly that. But Instagram's been a big one for me and it's interesting because people don't like to make content for 24 hours, they like to make content that lasts, like this podcast will last and someone will listen to this in 10 years’ time still. Whereas on Instagram on your Stories, it's gone within 24 hours. But actually that's quite good because it makes it relevant and present as opposed to you're actually looking back at something that was a year ago, two years ago. Whereas with your newsfeed you can do that. Instagram's clever for me, because I've watched it adapt, like I've watched it when 15 second videos came in and it almost killed Vine, which was the predecessor. Well, not the predecessor, they were in the same kind of space, but it's done that and you'll notice now it's got the from Facebook when you load it up and things, and it's heavily part of that package. It's interesting to see it grow, and it's interesting to see it adapt. It's become a lot more of a younger audience, they're migrating slightly now to TikTok, but they're not as Instagramming.
Richard Hill:
So what would be a couple of tips you would give listeners for Instagram? I know you've put some real... I don't know quite how to explain it, but obviously you upload stuff and then I think you must be using some other filters, tools, software to make things a bit fancier.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Or what are your sort of go to that you recommend?
William Stokes:
Yeah, I use Lightroom on a couple of images, yeah, depending on the image.
Richard Hill:
So that's if you're looking a little bit jaded from the day before, is it?
William Stokes:
Yeah. I use one called 'Perfect 365' to remove the bags from under my eyes and enhance..
Richard Hill:
Really?
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah, no jokes. No jokes.
Richard Hill:
Perfect 365 everybody.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah, cracking. And then when I put it on Instagram, I tend to keep it quite raw. I usually use the third filter, I can't think what it's called, I almost always use that one but only like 25, 20%. I keep it quite raw. The thing that about consistency, and it's funny because I was thinking this, I was scrolling through my Instagram this morning whilst having a coffee, trying to find a picture to put up today, because I haven't got anything set for today. And you've got to keep consistent on it, if you don't post for a couple of days you lose massive amounts of engagement. So you've got to stay on it.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Consistency.
William Stokes:
Yeah. But I've done the one thing on Instagram that you shouldn't do and that is that I've not got a niche. So when I was heavily involved in property development, if you go to my feed then, it was heavily property development and all my followers were property development basis. Whereas now …there's me having wine at the Duke to me having a coffee to me on site.
Richard Hill:
You put a lot on of coffees, don't you? You start with day with a big coffee aficionado, would that be right?
William Stokes:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I'm really into specialty coffee. But yeah, I'm always trying to learn more. And I look at what accounts that are working and getting boosted and getting promoted are doing and I try and look at what they've done and see if I can replicate that, and how that affects things. I like-
Richard Hill:
So we met at an event, we met at a couple more events, but then obviously I would see you in my feed and be like, "Oh, that's Will, that's the guy from the networking two years ago. Da, da, da, da, da", and then obviously feel like I knew you a bit more obviously, you know?
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
And you were probably looking at my feed thinking, "Hmm, he doesn't put much on", which I don't.
William Stokes:
Yeah, I followed you. I found you on there and you haven't put on anything.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, now with my kids and my misses on holiday, a few bits and bobs. All my team are like, "Richard, you've got to get out there on Instagram", and no doubt with the podcast, we've got a podcast Instagram which has just gone live, so I think it's inevitable. I will be doing that.
William Stokes:
Well I'm going to get a lot better at it. So as part of the Redding deal we've got going through, I'm looking at hiring a videographer that's going to spend one day with me going round and I'm going to do those Gary 15 minute shots and things like that, and I want to get into that kind of content.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, we can use all that.
William Stokes:
Yeah. So I want to get down that route with my personal brand. But at the same time, the problem that I've got, and we spoke about this before, is on one half I want a personal brand and I want to be known for doing this, that kind of thing, but the other half of me, I wake up and I'm like, actually, I quite like the fact that no one knows really who I am and you obviously didn't know who I was when we met. And I quite enjoy that as well. So I'm kind of in this middle tier where I flip between the two and go-
Richard Hill:
I can resonate with that.
William Stokes:
Yeah, I want to be seen and no, actually, no I don't.
Richard Hill:
Which is the thing with our podcast, it's like what are we going to call the podcast? So it was going podcast, and then the guys were like, podcast, and I'm thinking, well maybe it should, but do I want to do that?
William Stokes:
The Richard Hill Show.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, well that's exactly what we... It was almost The Richard Hill Show.
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
You know? But I was like, brand, personal brand, brand, and I've always had a little bit of a tussle with that personally. So we got a bit of a balance there, so eCom@One with Richard Hill.
William Stokes:
Yeah. That's a good balance, yeah. I think I'll do a second one. So I think I'll do a second podcast that will be something around me and entrepreneurship, but I won't do that for another few years. And I probably won't do that as a podcast, I'll do that as a YouTube show and then take the audio and put that into a podcast so you've got both.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, so you've got both, yeah?
William Stokes:
That's what we're going to do with Business Over Beers. We're going to move from having this podcast gear, we've got clip-on mics that we've ordered, and we're just going to sit in front of the camera, upload it as a YouTube show and then take the audio and strip it down, put it into the podcast.
Richard Hill:
Yeah we were using Zoom yesterday and just did one recording. Obviously you'd use Zoom as well?
William Stokes:
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, you obviously get the audio straight out in a separate file, it's done. So that's pretty cool.
William Stokes:
I don't know. But I literally pay an editing guy who does it. So we have an editing guy based in the Netherlands that just charges, and we think it's Dropbox. You've got in house you see? And it's gone.
Richard Hill:
Okay. So I'm going to wrap things up. It's been fantastic.
William Stokes:
Thank you for having me.
Richard Hill:
But I like to finish every podcast with the same question. I am an avid reader. As a 20 ish year old, I didn't read at all, I'll be honest with you. You know, did the uni thing but I had a bit of a battle with the books, personally. But then as I started my own businesses, it was like, "Oh my god, 15 quid you can buy a book on X and pretty much you can outsmart three months of studying in some respects."
William Stokes:
Do you know what I did? So just to jump off. So I was tight as hell when I got started, and I thought, I'm not paying 10 quid a book. And now if you said to me, there's going to be one nugget in this book, I'll pay 100 quid for that book. But I went on Amazon and I tracked them all when they were secondhand ones, for like a couple of pennies, and then the £2,80 postage, and I bought all them. And I've got an entire bookcase built up of all them books.
Richard Hill:
Wow.
William Stokes:
And I've got some of the best books in the business and I've probably paid, I would say at least one fifth of what someone if they were to go buy them new paid.
Richard Hill:
That is amazing, isn't it? Save 200 quid or whatever that number is, to buy 30 books. And then if you actually consume those books, as you really spend the time, and then I think now, the stuff I know from doing as much so but just some of the books and some of the new ideas you get and just... So what's the one book? What's the one resource, what's the one book you would recommend?
William Stokes:
Ooh, good question. So I'm really into personal finance and I'm into that backend stuff, so I'm going to steal your book which is one of my favorite books of all time on personal finance, How to Own the World by Andrew Craig.
Richard Hill:
Wow, yeah.
William Stokes:
But I'm going to drop a second one in there if that's all right?
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
William Stokes:
Because I am a massive fan, so we were talking about and you were talking about thinking big, I'm a massive fan of Nikola Tesla and I think there should be more Nikola Tesla. If you look at him verse Thomas Edison, there's a lot more that he did and pioneered. And I'm reading the book which is Nikola Tesla, The Man Who Imagined the 20th Century. And that book is all about imagination and how you have to take things and think big, and often as entrepreneurs, if things don't happen within a year, two years, we start to get a little bit disheartened by it. And actually it's having that big long term vision and understanding that things are going to take longer, but it's a compound curve, and that's why it ties in with the personal finance, because finance is a compound curve. It's not straight line up. Every year it grows a little bit more and suddenly, it's going up vertically.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Have patience, yeah, stacking.
William Stokes:
100%.
Richard Hill:
Compound interest.
William Stokes:
Compound effect is key.
Richard Hill:
So How to Own the World-
William Stokes:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Andrew Craig. I think is up there, top five books of all time. That's a bold statement to make but I'm with you on that one. Completely one of my favorites. He actually came in to the offices today, obviously he sat at my desk.
William Stokes:
I bought Sam a copy, who I do a podcast with. I've bought him a copy as soon as I finished it. And I paid full price for that one.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Whole £60.
William Stokes:
The whole 60, or whatever it was, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Fantastic book for those that maybe need to get their finances in order, or understand finance. Just in there, it's quite a back to basics book with some very simple strategies there to understand where to get started with investing. And investing sounds like quite a scary word isn't it? But even it's just where, okay, you've earned your first £1,000 a month, what are you going to do with it? Maybe going to split it, put it in different pots and start saving a little bit, and that little bit soon becomes something and then that something can be then used to invest into a fund. Or what's a fund? Scary, another scary word. Okay, oh, it's not that scary actually, it's quite straightforward, and then you and then, next thing, year or two down the line you're thinking, "Wow, this is"-
William Stokes:
And it doesn't have to be much, 10%. You take 10% a month and do that and over a 20 year window, you're laughing.
Richard Hill:
I have to say, it is one of the books that, last week I left it in the office on Friday and we went out with work on the Friday, two weeks ago we went out with work on Friday and I got a taxi home and on the Saturday I woke up, "Ah, left the book at work", so I actually drove back into Lincoln, I live 15 miles away, and I drove back in, got the book and that was it, sat all afternoon and read again. So, brilliant book. So what was the name? So, Imagining the 20th-
William Stokes:
Yeah, I think it's called The Man Who Imagined the 20th Century. It's not by him, it's by someone else, but it's the Nikola Tesla. If you type that in, it'll come up.
Richard Hill:
Okay, right. So for those guys that are listening that would like to find out more about what you're doing and connect with you online, what's the best way to do that?
William Stokes:
Sure. So as you mentioned, my Instagram's probably the best one, which is @mrwilliamstokes. All my social hashtags and handles are generally that, Mr William Stokes, but then there's also williamstokes.co.uk which links all that.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. And you're also on LinkedIn, Instagram, yeah.
William Stokes:
Yeah, Twitter, TikTok for my sins.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, and then can see what you're doing with the coworking space and the flexible workspace, what's the best-
William Stokes:
Yes. So all the handles for that, @wearecospace.
Richard Hill:
We Are Co Space, yeah.
William Stokes:
And then co-space.co.uk.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, fantastic. Well thank you very much, Will.
William Stokes:
Thank you.
Richard Hill:
Been a pleasure having you.
William Stokes:
Thanks for having me.
Richard Hill:
Nice one.
William Stokes:
It's been great, thank you.