E30: Tia Roqaa

Richard Hill:
Hi, and welcome to another episode of eCom@One, and today's guest is Tia Roqaa. That is the founder of Roccabox, which is an independent UK beauty subscription business. How are you doing, Tia?
Tia Roqaa:
Fabulous, thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
Richard Hill:
No problem at all. Tia was just telling me, she's just literally come back in from an all-inclusive few days away. How lucky are you, hey?
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah. I need another holiday now a bit of a detox.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, it's that time of year I think. It's all crazy, isn't it? And the business world seems to be, and I think trying to get a few days off now, is a good idea, if we can. I think my kids are back off school in a couple of weeks. So I can't wait to get a few days away, hopefully then. So not long, countdown. So, maybe kick off with giving us a bit of background. What the motivation behind Roccabox, and what is Roccabox?
Tia Roqaa:
Okay, so back when we ... it was about five years ago. In fact, yeah it was nearly five years ago, I think. I was working in PR for a beauty brand, and I, at the same time was in my early 20s. I used to go round beauty counters myself, not really knowing what I was buying, or what I was doing, with beauty products. And I'd end up going to the counter, at Boots, or Harvey Nichols, and I'd be talked into buying something, or a whole range of makeup, or skincare, or whatever. I'd get home and be like, "This is just not what I've set out to get. It's either wrong for my skin, or ... " I'd been up-sold things, and ... I don't know, I just found that going out, and shopping like that, didn't really work for me, personally.
Tia Roqaa:
On the flip side of that, I was working in PR, as I mentioned, but looking to reach a new audience, in a different way. So I just thought, "Well, what would I like to do?" And I wanted to try sampling things, in the comfort of my own home, and that's how Roccabox was born. We essentially send out a box of beauty products every month, and send people on a bit of a journey of beauty discovery, to be honest. So, the idea is, you get a mixture of haircare, skincare, makeup, accessories, beauty accessories, and for a really affordable amount of £10 a month, plus postage.
Tia Roqaa:
We launched four years ago. I started doing the groundwork a lot before that. And I've never really looked back, I think everyone loves it.
Richard Hill:
So quite a few years in the making, obviously came from a real need that you spotted, as a lady that goes to buy ... a woman that goes to buy their makeup, and thought, "Do you know what? Well, I can do that better," or, "I can fill a gap in a market, and really help people with their makeup." So one thing I'm really intrigued about, and really keen to dive into, is the subscription base, the pricing model. That's something I'm very, I guess, passionate about myself. But what was your thought process, behind the subscription model, and how is that working? And what would you say to people that are thinking about maybe doing a subscription model, or already are doing a subscription model, and how they could maybe improve theirs?
Tia Roqaa:
Well, don't get me wrong. I'm not going to say that I'm an expert, but I did do a lot of thinking into this, before I started it, and I thought, "What's that ... " Oh, god what's the word? "That tipping point, of being able to ... it come out of your bank account every month, and you not really care that much about it. And then, at what point does it get to the point where you do care about it, and if you're looking to cut back, you cancel it?" So for example, Netflix. In fact, I have canceled my Netflix, because I use my dad's account. I'm like, "Everyone uses someone else's account." I don't know-
Richard Hill:
Can you send me your password?
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah, I'll send it out, after this. The people that pay for it, are the unlucky ones, because everyone else is just using theirs, aren't they? But unfortunately, you can't do that with a Roccabox. But yeah, so I wanted to just get that sweet spot, of being cheap enough to not care too much about it, and not being too expensive, but still being able to make a bit of a margin.
Tia Roqaa:
So as I mentioned, it's £10, plus postage, so the direct debit that comes out of your account every month, is £13.95. Which, where I live, is the price of a couple of drinks. It's not a huge amount. And the value that's inside of these boxes, is always far greater. So say for example, you've paid your £10 for the box, but they're quite often worth, £50, £60, £70. In December, we've got a product in there, that's worth £98, and people are paying £10 for it.
Richard Hill:
Wow.
Tia Roqaa:
You really do get your value for money. And so, it just needed to be accessible, but I was always of the mindset that it needed to be a low margin, high volume product. As you can imagine, there's all sorts of elements that go into it. Obviously, we do pay a small amount for some of the products. Some of them are gifted to us, for marketing purposes, out of the brands' marketing budgets. But at the same time, we do more than just send the products out. We've got a big platform. We've got however many thousand email subscribers, and social followers. So it's the whole package, that we offer to them.
Tia Roqaa:
So depending on what they're offering to us, product-wise, will depend on what sort of a package we can offer to them.
Richard Hill:
So you've got two sides to it. You've got brands, manufacturers, that are in instances giving you products, as part of their millions of pounds marketing budget, or whatever it may be. A bit like when I used to work in the IT business, you would get a product to give away, you would get incentives, and marketing budget, if you did X, Y, Z. So different brands are working with you, to give you maybe hundreds of the new ... I'm not that familiar with ladies makeup. Apologies, but I should be by now. We've had a couple of ladies on, that have got huge brands. And obviously your-
Tia Roqaa:
Or something like that.
Richard Hill:
But it works both ways, doesn't it?
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Your subscribers, the ladies that are subscribing ... mainly ladies, I guess. Not all ladies, I'm sure. But, they're subscribing, getting huge value. They're getting like 100 quid's worth of stuff every now and then-
Tia Roqaa:
Exactly. So definitely it's a two pronged approach. And say for example, as well, we might work with a brand that maybe isn't necessarily within beauty, but they want to get in front of our audience. It might be a drinks' company, or chocolate, or something like that. And they'll pay for our services, to get in front of our audience. So it goes so far beyond that as well, we do competitions, and things. However, it is quite annoying, and makes my life very difficult. Not just me, me and all of the team, having to get those products each month, because the amount of organization that goes into it, getting the products into our warehouse, packed into the boxes, and sent out every month, it's a huge operation, especially when you're doing tens of thousands a month.
Tia Roqaa:
It was fine when we first started it, and it was a couple of hundred, and I used a social enterprise, to pack the boxes, at that point, and they could cope. But I quite quickly outgrew that. So I would say to anyone that's looking at doing a subscription faced business, do it with a service, not a product. And you'll make your life so much easier. And also, anything service based is pure profit, once you've actually paid ... I don't know, whatever it is, let's say it's the app, or Netflix, they pay their royalties, or whatever it is. Once you've paid for those, and your overheads are covered, and then you've got all your profit sorted. So that would be-
Richard Hill:
Then you've got that fulfillment, haven't you? That warehousing, that logistics element.
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah, exactly.
Richard Hill:
To be a huge uprise, or uplift, should I say, in the subscription business. I know my wife, for example, we seem to be getting gin delivered to the door every like four days, I think it seems like at the moment. I'm not complaining, but I need to check the bank statement I think. So on the subscription, is there any sort of ... I think, obviously listening to the podcast, we've got a lot of different businesses that will be ... I know we've got people on the podcast that will be shipping out thousands of orders a day. You're saying there, about partnering with brands. I think a good takeaway there, for the guys that are listening in, is that maybe every order they're packing, and shipping, they could add in maybe details of other partner brands, and tying in with those brands. And in return, obviously getting maybe marketing budgets. "If you can get our brand in front of 10,000 of your customers, we'll give you X amount of money, or products, or ... "
Richard Hill:
Even though you might not have a subscription business, you can maybe help to promote another subscription business, or bolt on to an existing business, as a subscription business. My businesses are all subscription businesses. I think it's like the holy grail, to be honest, of business. I'm a massive, massive fan of subscriptions. So Black Friday, is that something that you guys get involved with? Do you do specific promotions, around Black Friday, or-
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah, we do.
Richard Hill:
... What are you gearing up for, at the moment?
Tia Roqaa:
For Black Friday, historically, bearing in mind, as I say, we're a low margin product. So it's difficult to give a big discount. However, I've always used it as a bit of an opportunity to just generate something like a bit of cashflow. So I might do a 50% off, but a 50% off a 12 month subscription. So that means we get a big chunk of cash, to work with, if we maybe need it for those coming months. And so that's what I've done, historically. We're now bigger. I've got a marketing team, and a lot more people, that are helping me run the business, and make my life easier, thankfully.
Tia Roqaa:
And this year, we're looking at actually just doing ... We are going to offer a percentage off our annual subscriptions. It will be less of a percentage, but we're also going to do a special limited edition box. So we're going to create a Black Friday box, and it will be as high value as possible, for as cheap as possible-
Richard Hill:
So it'll be probably more than the normal value, more than the normal £10, but it will be £500 worth of products for £60, or something?
Tia Roqaa:
Well yeah, exactly. Maybe not even that. It's probably more likely to be £150 worth of products, it'll be a limited edition box, it will sell for £20. And then, we might send round a discount code, to give them 50% off, or something like that. So yeah, we are just working on it at the moment, but what we're working on, isn't necessarily the offer, it's getting the products in, and offering-
Richard Hill:
Getting the deals, sort of thing.
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Obviously, you're saying, obviously you started off with the idea. Then you get so many dozens of boxes, hundreds of boxes, and then you get to where you are today, four, five years in. What's some advice you would give the guys listening in, about how you've acquired customers? So which different marketing channels have worked for you, or are working for you, at the moment?
Tia Roqaa:
I feel like I've tried everything. And don't get me wrong, as much as I've won a lot of customers, I've lost a lot of customers, as well. So I think it's retaining the customers, obviously. That's a huge thing, but winning the customers. We do a lot of sort of partnerships, reciprocal activity, with other brands, or other platforms. So we might do a limited edition box, that's with a media partner, for example, and we'll send it out to their demographic. My first 12 months, my business model was very, very different. So I knew that on that first box, I was going to go to you, at L'Oreal, and say, "Can I have 200 units, for free, so that I can send them out to my subscribers?" I knew they would have turned around and be like, "Well, first of all, who are you? Second of all, why would we do that?"
Tia Roqaa:
You haven't always got a database. I did actually build up a database, before I launched, so that gives me an idea of how to know how many boxes I might need. So anyway, I decided that for that first year, I would be an influence situated box. So I got a list of influencers, and I approached them and said, "Do you want to have your own beauty box? Tell us all your favorite brands, and we'll put together a box, lists of all your favorite products. You then promote it, we promote it, and then the brands are happy, because they're promoted by the influencer, and they get in front of a new audience." That's how we did it. That's actually the full business model.
Richard Hill:
So you're partnering with a brand, and an influencer, that's what we're saying is it's like two-
Tia Roqaa:
No, so we've partnered with the influencer, and so they would give me a list of let's say 20 different brands, and we would put five different brands in there, from that list. We would do it in that way. So that just gave us a bit of kudos, as a new business. It gave us the kudos, from the brands, to want to work with us. We then did a good job, and then the next year, we didn't necessarily need the influencers for various reasons. I wanted to maybe do my own sort of thing. It might have been difficult to work with the influencers. Not because of them necessarily, but sometimes, at the beginning, we might have needed to get to 50 brands, or 100 brands, to be able to get a box together. So it didn't always work out so well.
Tia Roqaa:
And as well, some influencers really have great followings, it looks like they've got a really good outreach, but actually they don't have the selling power that we needed worth it. It was one of those really. So it was great for that first 12 months, but that's how we got going.
Richard Hill:
So are you doing anything with paid advertising now, or is it still very much focused with the partnerships that you've grown?
Tia Roqaa:
To be honest, we quadrupled in size, during lockdown. And we were at the point where we actually couldn't keep up with our orders, and we kept on selling out. So for the last six months, we haven't been doing any paid ads, at all. We're reintroducing those now, but again, we have a really small ... I'd say, let's do 500 quid this month. It's not a huge thing. And that's across Google and social, so I'm not going to proclaim that I'm any sort of expert in paid ads.
Richard Hill:
No, I think that's an interesting one, because the reality is, you haven't had to, which is great. It's great, and obviously there will be a time when you may go down that path, or you may not. But-
Tia Roqaa:
But even before the lockdown, and us not being able to get a handling of stock, and selling out, and stuff, we still then ... we really had a small budget, of a couple of hundred quid a month. It was never something that we really focused on. I wanted to be able to get as much out of organic partnerships, as possible. So I'd rather channel all of our energies into doing that, than paying, and you maybe not necessarily getting it back. I know I keep referring back to it, but bearing in mind we've got a £10 product, how many people do we have to ... Like if you're paying a cost per click, and things like that, they have to stay signed on for a few months, to be able to make it worth it, and things like that. So that's why it's not really been a massive focus of ours, historically. However, that doesn't mean that going forward, that might not be the case.
Richard Hill:
I suppose that brings me onto my next question nicely, because obviously with a £10 product, there's certain costs per sale. And it's how long does a client stay? If a company stays for three months, that's obviously an income, if they stay for two years, it's a big, big difference. So what are some of the strategies you've used, to retain the customers, maybe upsell them, increase the values, or anything there, you could give our listeners, around retaining, and upselling?
Tia Roqaa:
So we retain our customers by a few things really. First of all, we want to make sure that we're consistently good, or consistently great. We always want to make sure we're delivering a good product. Because that one month that comes in ... and believe me, we've had plenty of them, that one month that happens, where you deliver a really poor standard box, or poor standard product, everyone goes. And then you've got to try and win them back again. So it's so frustrating. But sometimes it happens, sometimes things just don't work out right, and brands might drop out at the last minute, and we're then scuffling around-
Richard Hill:
Yeah, trying to find something to go in a box.
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah. Exactly. So there's that. There's always keeping that standard, but as well, we have our social media, and email marketing tactics, in that we'll release a sneak peek of that next month, before the end. We will put our hero product out, and then. Yeah, exactly, so it's a bit of a teaser, and it's like, "This is what you'll get." And then, I think from there, a lot of people will be like, "Do you know what? I'm not interested in that." Or, they were going to be subscribing anyway, or if they weren't, then-
Richard Hill:
Or, they're going to go, "Oh, do you know, we'll give it one more month. That looks good. I've seen that, that's 80 quid in the shop, yeah.
Tia Roqaa:
So that's the main way that we keep them onboard, as well as obviously, we try to have as great customer services, as possible. And if anything does go wrong, we like to do everything with a bit of love, to be honest. That's our big thing, we really care about our customers. But aside from that, about upselling. So we've got the £10 months' subscription, but now we've launched that every month, couple of months ... We're looking to move to make it every month, in the next year, but we'll do a limited edition box, and this limited edition, will be a premium box, and that will retail at £30. So we won't sell the volume of those, that we do on a monthly basis. We'll launch a limited amount, and then once they're gone, they're gone.
Tia Roqaa:
But those ones ... we just did one, a few weeks ago, in collaboration with a media partner, and that sold out within two hours. It was a £30 box, and literally it sold out. I think the only reason it took two hours, is because people couldn't get on the ... the website was crashing and stuff.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, brilliant.
Tia Roqaa:
And then after that, a few weeks after that, we did another one, which was worth ... I can't remember the first one, the value, but the one we launched just on ... I don't know, a few days ago, was £25, and the value was £225. So again, that sold out within a few hours, and people really wanted it. So that upselling, to our current customers, and also just getting that extra income.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, no that's great. I think that'll resonate with a lot of people that are listening in, where you've got, I guess your traditional ... or your business, which in your instance is £10 a month, at the moment. But then, "We're doing this launch. This launch may be out once a month, or every other month," and that's where you're also getting that bigger, commercial ... You're getting a bigger payday, but in the same respect, the brand's getting that uplift, and potential to sell the £10 box. But if you're selling several hundred, or whatever the numbers are, of the 30, 40 quid box, you're getting that. So you've got this premium product, in effect, and premium payday ... It's like a lot of the businesses listening in, I think. You've got your normal products, your normal schemes, where you might sell a 50 quid average order value, but we've all got, I think ... or a lot of people listening in, will have these orders that come through, where somebody spends either 10 times, or five times what you normally spend, but in a volume.
Richard Hill:
Which we're seeing a lot of at the moment, where a lot of clients that we've got ... for example, as soon as Boris said, "Work from home," again, there's certain clients that we've got, in certain industries, where you need those products to work from home. IT or whatever it may ... they're getting that additional payday again, whereas you're doing this mini launch, in effect, every other month, or whatever it may be, around Black Friday, maybe at Christmas. So yeah, the guys listening in, you're thinking about those different revenue streams, obviously retention being a massive one, with subscriptions. It's obviously, if you're spending all your time, trying to just win your business, you're missing a trick, is what you're saying, because you've got to retain. If you can't retain, you're just sort of on that hamster wheel of trying to survive, potentially, where you're trying to go to that next level.
Richard Hill:
So every now and then, like everybody ... everyone's human, we maybe drop the ball on not doing the best service we want, and lose a few. So you've got to make sure that you're always offering that really, really good service. So brilliant, thank you. So you talked about partnerships, obviously they've been key, with influencers particularly, but can you give us any more tips on how you've secured some of the brands that you work with? Like St. Tropez and Huda, some of the maybe secret tips, or ways that you've secured these ... because I think, from my perspective, definitely, some of the relationships we have within our agencies, they've been key ... a massive key to how well some of the things we're doing in our business. So what are some of the tips you would give, around building relationships, and partnerships?
Tia Roqaa:
What we're trying to do now is, we work with a really ... We should do it with every brand, but obviously there are some brands that are more exciting than others. Some brands resonate with our audience more than others. We had one product in recently, and it was ... we do a customer feedback report, and when we did the feedback report, it was hated by like 99% of people, and they have just actually emailed this morning, wanting to work with us again. I'm like, "Well, we need to make it with a totally different product, and see if we can change people's opinion on it." That exercise was great for them, as a brand, because they were like, "Hang on a minute, maybe people don't like this product."
Tia Roqaa:
It's a really important thing. We, always, after a campaign will do a feedback report, and we'll ask our customers what they thought of it. So just after that then, picking up the phone and speaking to the brands and going, "Right, this is what they love. This is what they didn't love." How can they use that to develop either their brand, or their products, depending on who they are, as a business. That's really helpful for them, to develop, and we just then book them in again for the campaign. So that's a really important thing, just making sure that we've got the brand's best interests at heart, as well as the customers' best interests.
Richard Hill:
So obviously once you've got them onboard, making sure that you're just working really closely, and giving the feedback. Is there anything you would say about getting them onboard in the first place? If somebody's listening in, and does nothing with big brands, or reasonable sized brands, and wants to get in front of those brands, wants to collaborate, partner with a brand, is there any specific little tactic, you would say that-
Tia Roqaa:
Well, I think you've just got to be confident, and have some balls really. It's one of those things where, you've really just got to go for it. There's no point in going, "Oh, god. They'll never want to work with me, because we're not big enough," or whatever. I remember within the first ... I think it wasn't even three months old at this point. Crème De La Mer, which I think Estee Lauder, a huge, huge, huge brand. They're in Boots, Harvey Nichols, Harrods. They're premium, they've got makeup that ... they're super famous, and they contacted me, wanting to do a brand exclusive box within three months.
Tia Roqaa:
So I remember going down to London, having a meeting with them, and presenting my deck, and when I got there and presented it, they were like, "We didn't realize you were so young," as in not me, but the business was so young. But it was because I'd really gone, and I'd sold myself, and sold them what we did. And they really loved it, but unfortunately we weren't actually reaching a big enough audience at that point, to make it ... and we didn't have the logistics, and things like that. So it didn't end up happening, but they still called me for the meeting, and it still happened.
Tia Roqaa:
In terms of winning other business, it's a numbers game, just keep trying. And as well, just doing your job really well will then get awareness. So say for example, whenever we get some coverage, if we're listed in Grazia Magazine, then you can guarantee, the day that goes live, the phone will be ringing, and it'll be all different brands, wanting to work with us, because we've been featured and we've got that coverage. Where we would essentially be getting them the coverage, as well, in our box. So getting featured in those magazines is super important, as well. Sorry, go on.
Richard Hill:
Okay. I think it's like a lot of things, not giving up. Pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing. You're going to get maybe 20 nos, before you get a yes, but one yes can change things massively, can't they? Same with the ... we talk about the media titles that you've been in, you was about to say Grazia, I think Elle, Cosmopolitan I've got on my notes here. Similar strategy you would say then, just keep pushing with these guys, and obviously pushing the brand, and elevating the brand, keep doing the social media, and pushing everything out there, and you're going to get the attention.
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah, elevating as much as possible. The more places that you're seen in, the more brands that you're seen to be working with, will always help. And I think that being ... I remember when we got Huda. Huda is ... For those that don't know, she's a really, really huge brand. She started off as an influencer, and started her own brand. We worked with her, and funnily enough, I can't give any clues on how to work with them, but it was a complete coincidence that I emailed them, and then the person that emailed back was a girl that I used to go out with, in my early party days. And she worked there and ... so that sort of thing-
Tia Roqaa:
... it was just a complete, but then, as soon as we launched that box, with that product in, which sold out within days, then all the other brands were emailing us, wanting to work with us, because of the association. They were like, "Well, if Huda wants to work with them, then we do as well." So that-
Richard Hill:
So just getting that first one is then ... "Oh, they're working with them," and so on, and so on. Just push, push, push, until you get that first one, or two, or three, and then doors start to open. Like in a lot of businesses, isn't it? You get that one, maybe direct relationship, and then you're using that, and leveraging that. "Well, we work with X, Y, Z." "Oh, okay yeah." And you start making a noise, and start in those circles of those brands, in that industry. So-
Tia Roqaa:
I think ... sorry, back to about you getting coverage, as well. A lot of the coverage that we've had is beauty round-ups and things like that. However, I think that anyone that doesn't have their own PR agency, or anything like that, just think outside the box. Is there something that's relevant to your business, that could be a good conversation piece, or opinion piece? And if so, get it written down, and send it across. Speak to the relevant press, and say, "Do you know what?" For example, at the moment, how are people being able to sample beauty products, anywhere? The answer is, they can't, because of COVID.
Tia Roqaa:
There's no testers anywhere, so it's either you buy something, and take the risk, or you don't buy it, or you just stick to your old stuff. So I'm thinking, "Well, this must be a nightmare for brands, because you're about to launch a new product, how is anyone going to know what it's like to buy it?" It's going to be a massive punt, so that's beneficial for us, and it works both ways. It means that customers are going to be able to try new products, without committing to the full price of it, and brands are going to get in front of an audience, and get people talking about it, and build the hype.
Tia Roqaa:
So I've just put together an opinion piece on that, which we've sent out last week, and we'll just follow up with it this week, and see who's going to publish it. But just things like that, think outside the box. How can you get magazines and publications to speak about you? Without it just being like, "We've sent out a new box today." That's not exciting news, sadly. I wish it was, because then people would write about us every month, but you've got to just think outside the box, and think what do people want to know about, and what's interesting at the moment?
Richard Hill:
Huge opportunity, isn't it, I think, what you're saying. That amount of ladies, that are used to going to the beauty counter, and testing, testing, testing, testing-
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah, again I've had-
Richard Hill:
... but you just can't do it. We can't do it, can we?
Tia Roqaa:
... Yeah, but I've had the same problem. I was going on holiday, I needed to get some new foundation, which for those that don't know, foundation is the one that you put on your face, and it's all different colors. So you can't just get any old color. There's loads of different choice. So how did I know which one to get? It was a complete and utter guess. The first one that I bought was the wrong color, so that was 20 quid wasted. And the second one that I bought, luckily was all right, but I went for the cheap option, because I thought, "I'm not wasting another 20 quid." So it was just-
Richard Hill:
You're doing an invaluable service for the ladies, and the brands out there, aren't you? Amazing. So obviously a very fast moving industry. How do you keep on top of what's happening in the industry? Have you got any go-to ways that you keep on top of everything?
Tia Roqaa:
To be honest, Instagram is the future. That really is, it's such a huge platform. And then, back to when I even started the business, that's how I started it. I started it by posting pictures on Instagram, and getting people's interest on there. And then when they liked our page, and things like that, I directed them to our website. That's how I then got their email addresses, and that's how I could then approach them when we'd launch. So very similarly, because of the business that we've got, we're all on it. Me, all the team, we're constantly screen-shotting ... Well, not only are we screen-shotting what's going on in the industry in terms of new launches, is it an influencer that they've got a new product, or what's the influencer talking about? What are our competitors doing?
Tia Roqaa:
So literally, these industry magazines, really there's not ... and even just normal magazines, to be honest, you don't massively need those anymore, because it's all on Instagram.
Richard Hill:
It's just live on, it's all playing out on social-
Tia Roqaa:
Exactly. Obviously, as well, we do have an industry ... it's like a database sort of thing. So, it's got all the industry contacts on there, but it also has news. So whether a brand's launched a new product, or somebody's started a new job at a certain place. It's called Diary Directory, and it's specifically for fashion, beauty, and those sorts of things. And it's one of those that any sort of brand should either be listed on it, or have access to it. And they send like a bulletin every day, with all that information on. So that's something that you skim over, but the likelihood is, you've probably already found it out by-
Richard Hill:
But they're usually late to the party, because your team and yourself are already all over the industry, the key influencer style, the Instagram pages, and the different brands, and the different ... where people hang out, I guess. But anything you would say, on TikTok? How are you using that? Or, are you using that? Or, are you planning using that more?
Tia Roqaa:
I want to say I feel like I'm a bit old for TikTok. I haven't really quite got my head round it, in terms of on a brand point of view. My sister is a bit of a ... She's a lot younger than me, and she's all over this, and that sort of thing. And one of the girls that works for us, she's also in her early 20s, and she's down with it. So they've done a few videos for us, and posted them. But to be honest, it is something that we do need to be focusing on, and looking at. But I really just can't get my head round it.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, so it's maybe one for the future. It's on the radar, but it's not front and center yet.
Tia Roqaa:
Well, I say that, but I remember when Instagram started, I thought, "What's the point in this?" I really didn't get it. I was like-
Richard Hill:
Yeah, me and you both.
Tia Roqaa:
... Yeah, but now, I don't really use Facebook like I used to. I just really go on Instagram. And so, you never know, I might get my head round TikTok and forget about Instagram one day.
Richard Hill:
We'll maybe do part two of this interview in 12 months and see what your thoughts are then. You'll be like, "Oh, my god. It's amazing." So you're about four, five years into the actual business, but obviously been in the industry in PR for quite some time. What advice would you give yourself, looking back? What advice would you give yourself ... or what bit of advice would you give yourself, should I say, if you were to go back five years now? Is there anything that you've learnt?
Tia Roqaa:
It's a bit of a tough one that actually, because I wouldn't have got here, where I am now, if I hadn't have had those five years. And I couldn't really put them in a nutshell. There is one thing, actually that I'll say, is don't get blindsided by listening to other people that think they know better. Now, there's a reason behind that, and I once went for investment, because I thought I needed investment. And I'd need to get a new website, "And I want to get this, and that, and all this stuff." So I pitched to somebody, and said all these things, that I thought that I needed ... In fact no, not a thought. I knew that these are the things that I needed.
Tia Roqaa:
This person came back to me, and counter pitched to me, what they thought that I needed. And they were in a completely different industry, call centers, and there's no relevant ... it's a man, as well. No offense to the men, but a man, no experience in my industry, whatsoever. Completely different. He counter pitched me, and said, "I will give you that money, but this is what we should do with it." And so I was like, "Great. I'm going to get all this money, and it's going to propel me. The business is going to be huge, and ... " And he wanted a small percentage of the business, fine. So we did it. Anyway, I couldn't tell you how far into the business journey I was, at that point, but I was obviously still very naïve.
Tia Roqaa:
And I actually was on the slope. We were on an upwards slope, and we were really, really getting somewhere, and as soon as this person came onboard, and suddenly we were going down. And we were going down very quickly. And it got to the point where I was like, "I'm not going to have a business here," because I suddenly was doing really well, and then we weren't. And it was because of all these things that this other person had implemented, and they just didn't work. And not just that, so in terms of the website, the reason that I felt like I needed a new website was, I built the website myself, from scratch. I don't have any background it, but to be honest, I used to get so many people, brands, coming to me, and going, "Who got your website. It's amazing."
Tia Roqaa:
And so this person then, they wanted me to then use one of their friends, who was a web developer. They changed platforms, which then meant that I didn't know how to manage the website myself, so I lost complete control of that-
Richard Hill:
Yeah-
Tia Roqaa:
... and it was just an absolute nightmare. Honestly, it was awful. And-
Richard Hill:
So the advice being, be careful who you take advice from, be careful who you take investment from, and what that investment also ... obviously money is one thing, but then if they are then swaying things, with no experience in that industry. I think that's a good bit of advice from you, about getting advice. It's, who do you listen to? Just because someone's maybe 10, 20 years older, and loaded, doesn't mean they know A, your industry, or know the journey you're on. So yeah, that's a great bit of advice. I would completely endorse that myself.
Tia Roqaa:
I think it-
Richard Hill:
So easy to have read a book, or whatever, and go, "I'm a business coach." "Okay, really?" "Yeah." "So what have you done in your business?" Really question who you're taking the advice from.
Tia Roqaa:
Well, exactly. That's the thing. You really need to question, and just be like, "Right, okay. Well, what sort of insight into my industry, and what I do, do you have?" Because not all businesses are the same. There might be some people that are listening to this, that have got no relevance to ... this might be absolutely useless to some people, but great to some others. But just for clarity, I turned the business around, obviously when I ... I thought I turned it around. I had to then pack the boxes myself. I had a logistics company, had to get rid of them, because I couldn't afford to pay them. Suddenly, I was then packing 800 boxes myself, while trying to run the business. It was a complete nightmare, and this is a few years ago now.
Tia Roqaa:
I then got rid of the investor, I got 100% of my business back, and since then we've literally done nothing but get better, and better. it was a huge, huge learning curve, but at the same time ... So, it was a huge mistake, but at the same time, it was a huge learning curve.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, again these things are going to come and go, aren't they? But it doesn't define the business. Okay, we're learning, we're leaning.
Tia Roqaa:
And about making mistakes and stuff so, so, so many times I've made mistakes, and I get really, really annoyed. And it's so easy to make a big mistake. And it could be a financial mistake, or anything, and I just say ... I always have to drill into myself, and say, "That was not a mistake, it was a lesson. I might have paid for that lesson-
Richard Hill:
Cost you a few grand, but it's a lesson.
Tia Roqaa:
... equivalent to a university degree kind of lesson, of which I didn't go to. But yeah, I always just think, "That wasn't a mistake, it was lesson. And I'm going to learn from it, I'm going to move on." Because if you get weighed down by any mistakes, then they can hinder you, and stop you from moving forward. But no one's go to where they are, without making any mistakes.
Richard Hill:
100%, I think that's a brilliant ... So we're coming to the end of the episode. That really resonates with me, and I'm sure it will resonate with a lot of listeners. We're going to make mistakes, we're going to want some help and support, but just be a little bit careful who you take that advice from. So, final question, Tia. I always like to finish every episode, with a book recommendation. Do you have a book that you'd recommend to our listeners?
Tia Roqaa:
I feel like quite a few people might have said this, but I read a few years ago, The Four Hour Work Week.
Richard Hill:
Okay, yeah Tim Ferris.
Tia Roqaa:
And it's just something that ... So my staff, for example, none of my staff actually work full-time. Everyone works three days a week, because I actually think that, me, myself, I know that I can do a full day's work, in condensed hours, and do a really good job. That doesn't mean that when I started, I wasn't working every hour under the sun. But I know that I am more productive with set working hours, and with set hours that work for me. But there's loads more to that book, about you outsourcing, which is a lot of what I've done since day one, is outsource of the business. But I really, really do recommend it, because it's all about just working smarter, not harder. And I think that there's a lot of things that people could take away from that book.
Richard Hill:
Fantastic. So Four Hour Work Week, Tim Ferris, and we'll link that up in the show notes. So if the guys that are listening, that want to find out more about yourself, more about the brand, what's the best ways to connect with you, Tia?
Tia Roqaa:
Well, the brand is Roccabox UK, on Instagram, but you can find me on LinkedIn, personally. Tia Roqaa, which is R-O-Q-A-A.
Richard Hill:
But the website is R-O-C-C.
Tia Roqaa:
Yeah, and Roccabox is R-O-C-C-A-B-O-X.CO.UK.
Richard Hill:
That's brilliant. Well, thank you so much for being on eComOne. I'll look forward to, I think, catching up again in 12 months, and we'll have an update.
Tia Roqaa:
Brilliant, thank you so much for having me.
Richard Hill:
Thank you very much, bye.