E14: Thea Chippendale

Richard Hill:
Hi, and welcome to another episode of eCom@One and today's guest is Thea Chippendale. Now Thea is a Digital PR Exec at Rise at Seven. The sort of rising star agency in the UK. How are you doing Thea?
Thea Chippendale:
I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Richard Hill:
It looks nice and sunny where you are.
Thea Chippendale:
Well, it's probably best. It's been raining for the past weeks now.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Can't make it's mind up can it. It's one thing or another. So I think if we could kick off there and just give us a little bit of background over what you've been... your career story to date, it would be great.
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. So, I mean, obviously I'm what could be perceived as quite a baby to the industry. I've only really been in it for about a year. So I've always wanted to do something that's been creative. I've always been a creative person sort of thing. So I went to uni and I did marketing and advertising at uni. When you get to the end of uni, you sort of have that mini break, like mental breakdown of, "I don't actually know what I'm going to do." After you... but I mean, I was quite lucky because after any few months of looking, I got a job in Leeds at a flowing company as a Social Media and PR Exec. So, yeah, that was a really fun job.
Thea Chippendale:
I mean, I was only there for about three months, because, so, I got, well, Carrie messaged me basically. So I've known Carrie for longer than that, when I was still at uni, because I had a viral tweet. A tweet that went viral with ASOS. Carrie was one of the first people in the PR industry to pick it up. So we sort of had virtually met, with that tweet. So basically she was starting up this agency, as I was sort of getting into the swing of things in my career. She said, "Do you want to come for a chat?" So I went and had a chat with her and Carrie, and I mean, the rest is history sort of thing.
Richard Hill:
For those that don't know, Carrie founded with her business partner, Rise at Seven. I think it's, I saw on LinkedIn today, It's their what, your one-year anniversary today? Is that right?
Thea Chippendale:
Indeed. We've had a... Celebratory at, I don't know what is, it's like Google Hangouts this morning.
Richard Hill:
Be in celebration this morning. Yeah. I'm sure you'll have a proper celebration in a few weeks or months. Yeah.
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah, I think so, definitely.
Richard Hill:
Okay. So, and you've been at Rise at Seven for about 10 months or so.
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. Nine, ten months I've been there. So, yeah. So it's been good to start with an agency that's been in the baby steps, as I was in my baby steps. So I've been able to grow with the company sort of thing. So I think if I'd been anywhere else, I'd have been a bit stunted in my growth sort of thing.
Richard Hill:
So the opportunities for you are pretty, pretty incredible when you started at an agency, first agency. Which is an agency that is doing super, super well and working with some huge brands, that I was obviously looking at the roster of brands on the website. Some huge brands, which we'll dive into a few things as we go. So obviously you've been sort of privy and able to work on some of major projects, amazing projects.
Richard Hill:
So as a sort of first career move or second career move. First career move out of uni. Fantastic. So you obviously have some great insights. So I see yeah, obviously, your title is Digital PR. Now digital PR, obviously there's quite a few different strands. The newer strands. Older school strands. Different ways to get brands in front of people, and perfect customers, et cetera. But for you what would you say is digital PR?
Thea Chippendale:
Well, I mean, I can say maybe this is my point of view as the baby of the industry. I feel like I can, I've maybe got a different opinion to other people, but I think it's definitely a strategy to create noise and obviously linked, and improving your rankings. But yeah, I think digital PR for me is not only just building links. It's creating that social noise. Creating the brand awareness and what that as well. So, yeah.
Richard Hill:
So you've got this noise brand awareness, and then you've got this links, this hard number of links. Do you have a... when you're putting campaigns together and you've got targets or KPIs to hit. Have you got KPIs in both sides?
Thea Chippendale:
So not usually, are we KPI'd on social modes, I guess. We are KPI'd on links, but I think as an agency, we definitely look towards building campaigns that will create both.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Cool. So what would you say were on eCom@One and most of our listeners are either aspiring, or very established e-commerce stores. What would you say is the main benefit for e-commerce stores for using and implementing, and having campaigns around digital PR?
Thea Chippendale:
I mean, so we work with quite a lot of e-commerce and online retailers. Some big ones. We've got Missguided, Cath Kidston, Myprotein and all those. So I've had the pleasure of being able to work on Missguided and Myprotein. Probably one of the biggest case studies that I can mention that's probably... I don't know what the word is... I proved my case of the fact that digital PR is very beneficial, is we did, I think it was probably around November last year. Missguided had some dog jumpers and some human jumpers. We decided to put them together and push it out to press as a sort of matching dog jumpers, sort of thing.
Richard Hill:
His and hers, and a dog type-
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. I mean, who doesn't love animals? So it was always going to be a big hit. So, but anyway, so yeah. So, I think we got around 90 links for that, and I think 80% of those links were followed links. So, that was pretty good. But overall that in terms of the e-commerce business, it pushed Missguided's rankings for dog jumpers from, I think it was number thirty to the first. I think they're above Amazon and Pets at Home and stuff. It drove like 45,000 visits. It sold out. I mean, it was crazy.
Richard Hill:
A real success.
Thea Chippendale:
But, yeah.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. So e-commerce stores listening in, I think quite often what we hear and see is they're coming up with those ideas that obviously... So you've been given the task to create digital PR for a brand that works in the animal space. Do you watch your ideas the way that you come up with your ideas as a company or as a team? Was that just something you saw? Or you thought, "Oh, let's try that." Obviously that's quite out there-ish. Is there a strategy or advice you would give to firms that are looking to do some more out there, digital PR to come up with the ideas?
Thea Chippendale:
I think it's a very beneficial the fact that we've got a really amazing team, but I think it's more about being bold. You need to look at things with not only a PR view, but what would a journalist love to cover as well? Because if you can think about what a journalist covers, then you're guaranteed to get a link out. Yeah, so...
Richard Hill:
I think that brings me onto perfectly onto the next question then. So I think having those relationships with journalists, how do you get journalists to feature your story? What's the hook? Or the idea or that the million-dollar question is there when you come up... Obviously a lot of ideas flow around a team. There's a lot of creative people in business. But then okay, having that idea, creating something is one thing, but then getting journalists to hook into it and then run with it. What sort of things would you recommend and tips would you give around getting journalists on board?
Thea Chippendale:
So I think it's a really tough one, because I think there is no guarantee that you will ever be able to definitely get a journalist to feature your story. But I think there's also a lot of points that you can learn from and be able to have 99.9% chance of doing it. But overall, I think the basics is getting it, for getting a journalist to feature your story is to make sure it's got... and is relevant to the journalist that you're going to be targeting. So I think that starts with media lists and seeding lists, or they're the same thing, but people call in different things anyway.
Thea Chippendale:
But that's where you're building a list of journalists that you're going to send it to. So what we do is we look at similar campaigns sort of thing. So if we've got an idea, we look at similar campaigns. Look at who's covered it. Look at how they've angled it towards that journalist. Then that's what we go out with. Yeah, and I think it's also about building relationships with journalists as well.
Richard Hill:
So obviously as an agency and as an experienced team. You've got that media list, I guess, and that seed list, media list, contacts in the industry. But for those guys that are maybe are listening to the podcast, "But I don't have anybody. I've got nobody I can go to. I've got Google. I can search for... " What would you say to those guys about getting started.
Thea Chippendale:
Mm. So...
Richard Hill:
So would they look at that particular industry and then use searches online to find who the key influencers are in that industry and then start to build relationships with them?
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah, so I think a lot of relationships are built through Twitter at the moment. So looking at Twitter, what we usually do is we find a journalist that we'd love to have them cover a story. Then we look at who they're following. Journalists that they're following and we follow them as well. We have chats with them. We sort of spring ideas at, not ideas at them, because they're obviously very busy people, but say, "Oh, would this be something you'd be interested in covering?" Then you've been immediately got that relationship with them and that, yeah.
Richard Hill:
So, I think like anything it's getting started and knowing what to do is always that challenge, isn't it? Like all these now, I'd imagine, you've only been there nine months as you say. That first campaign is like, "Oh baby. What we going to do here?" But when you've done one, you've done two, you've done three. You've done one specifically in a niche. So you've got that specific. Those specific niche contacts, as we know in our agency, we are very much to e-commerce, but on eCom@One. So it's e-commerce specific, is one thing. Then e-commerce specific verticals is another thing.
Richard Hill:
So, we do a lot of the dog and cat, and medicine for animals as well. But obviously getting started there's always that challenge, but like you're saying Twitter, you can get to feel the who's who. Then you start building that bank of relationships. Then I think, I don't know how you find it, then you find those people are coming to you saying, have you got any coming out? Where can work on our e-campaigns? It does get easier. Doesn't it?
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. I get a lot of journalists that I've built relationships, for Missguided that still come to me and say, "We've seen this on the website. Would you help us make a story out of it?" Sort of thing. So it's definitely good to build those relationships with people.
Richard Hill:
So obviously you are a year out of Uni is what you are saying. Yeah. I think a lot of people will be really intrigued and impressed with what you've achieved, everything else. You've almost got at a dream PR job. I think there is a lot of people that would love to have your job.
Richard Hill:
You very much have. I came to one of Rise at Seven's events. Or the event that they hosted in, which I remember as November time. No, I can't remember exactly now, but the SEO meet up that they did. Came over with about five or six of us from our agency. You guys have really, the agency has already built an amazing reputation for itself. Obviously you've got that dream role. What would you say to aspiring PR execs. Aspiring, can't speak. Expiring? Aspiring PR people that are maybe just left Uni or they are in the throes of in that final year.
Richard Hill:
You see a lot of people now, we're at that time of year where they finish uni. I think obviously the job market particularly now, is going to be a very interesting one. You could argue it's a good time, but I think ultimately a lot of firms are letting a lot of people go. What makes you stand out in quite a crowded marketplace at the moment for an aspiring digital PR exec, what sort of tips would you give?
Thea Chippendale:
So I would probably say, I know this is probably really generic to say, but, I think being creative and bold with the way you approach potential employers, and not going for the norm of maybe just sending a CV. Make it creative. Make something that's going to stand out, because I mean, people get CVs constantly. But having something that maybe is tailored towards the job that you go for. I think we've had people that have applied as a PR pitch. Like as a PR email, which has grabbed our attention and stuff.
Richard Hill:
Like an outreach piece, than reaching out. Yeah.
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. But I think at Rise at Seven, we work on three different characteristics. That's what I think what Carrie and Steve look for in the people that they hire and I think we've got sharp as tack, enthusiastic as hell, and experts in the field. So I think it's definitely worth keeping those in your head. I mean, not that I'm saying everyone's going to want to apply to Rise at Seven, but I think they're definitely very three key staple pieces that I think people should definitely look at.
Richard Hill:
So the big takeaway there is obviously a CV is really the minimal. Sending a CV in nowadays in digital PR is not really going to cut the mustard is it. There's ten thousand people every year, or but tens of thousands of PR exec graduate or graduates leaving. Want to going into, go into the agency life or digital PR as execs. To stand out, send something that's going to stand out. Whether that's something in the post that's going to stand out. Whether that's like, say an outreach piece from the thing you're going to be doing in the role, is reaching out to journalists.
Richard Hill:
So show them the way that you would reach out, grab their attention sort of thing, yeah. Yeah, we very much got... We're going to be putting our graduate track back on. Every year we take on two graduates or more, and we're going to be putting our ads live in a couple of weeks for our graduate program. Which will be relevant for about two and a half months, but it's about a two month process normally. So yeah, we're expecting some, we are genuine expecting a lot more than just CVs coming through to get our attention. We are about 500 yards from the Uni, a little bit more than that. Baying with from the Uni now as well.
Richard Hill:
So, we're expecting quite an intake this year and I guess you guys have a lot of, I think I saw on the slide that Carrie on earlier. She's had a thousand people apply to work at the agency, which is crazy.
Thea Chippendale:
Constant.
Richard Hill:
Okay. So you've worked on a lot of campaigns already, sort of coming up to your year anniversary, I guess. But has there been a standout campaign for you? What would be the sort of your most favourite campaign you have worked on over the last nine, ten months?
Thea Chippendale:
Well, I mean, it's hard because we do some really, really cool campaigns. But I'd say the one that I've worked on that has probably been the most want to do, as well as the most fun to see the results is, I did a campaign called the Future Gamer. That was for a client. I think it's one of the best performing at Rise at Seven so far. It could easily be overtaken, but it got nearly a million social shares across the world. I think it was in 40 different countries. 400 media placements. It was mad really, but-
Richard Hill:
We can do that then. What was that then? How did that work?
Thea Chippendale:
So there was a campaign and last year I think it was and it was Emma, the future office worker. Basically it showed Emma as what office workers would look like if they didn't have the right posture, if they didn't look after themselves properly. So basically at Rise at Seven, we had this crazy idea. What if we did it for a future gamer? So I delved into some research and because I wanted to make it that was actually... it could be possible and I didn't want to make it to OTT.
Thea Chippendale:
So I delved into some research to see what actual problems that people had seen from excessive gaming. I looked on different medical journals and stuff like that. Then we had the help of a concept artist and a 3D sketch designer. I basically said, this is what I want it to look like and they came up with the Future Gamer and yeah, it just went absolutely mental.
Richard Hill:
The sort of what? Hunched over, bad back. That type of thing.
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. Hunched over. He had all sorts of problems, but-
Richard Hill:
No, communications skills or different type of communication skills. I've a few Future Gamers in my house.
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. I mean, some of the comments were very, there were a lot of gamers that were very offended by it. But it was a very extreme case. I would never have said that, that's what all future gamers would look like.
Richard Hill:
Obviously everyone's been locked down for three months. Give or take and yeah, my two sons. I don't know what we would have done without the Xbox, in the last three months, but I think they're... I say social skills. So they're always, fair amount. It's been brilliant because they obviously got their microphones on and they're chatting away to their mates anyway. So it's been brilliant to be fair.
Richard Hill:
So it's the opposite in one way. But them not speaking to their friends, but okay. So obviously gamers as well, very passionate, very, spend a lot of time at their art, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So that was your favorite campaign got some serious traction in 40 countries then. Wow.
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. It was very... but there were big gamers making YouTube videos about it as well. And it was-
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah. I think the key takeaway from it was that when you do a PR campaign, doing something that's going to create a bit of friction between people, something that it's going to get a bit of-
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Controversial. Love, hate vibe, yeah. Get people talking, whether it's good or bad sort of thing. Put fuel on the fire and sort of thing. There's a lot of talk about TikTok at the moment. Is that something you've had much experience within the agency or personally?
Thea Chippendale:
Personally? I mean, I love TikTok but I think it's definitely something that we've been monitoring. I know that there's a lot of people that from other agencies that have done some really cool campaigns about what some people in TikTok are going to be earning. Because I mean, it's just absolutely mental. Especially since lockdown started, I think it's gone crazy with the numbers about what people can be earning.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. It's an interesting one. I think we signed up for their ad platform just last week. So we're as an agency, very early stages deciding what we're going to do in terms of our... But yeah, we're definitely very keen to look at the ads. But we've not yet, but the campaign's alive, but it's everyone back to the office this week. Next week. It's on the agenda to have a look at. But yeah, it was an interesting one. I think for e-commerce brands, particularly.
Thea Chippendale:
I think it's like a black hole for people. I think people go on it for about five minutes and end up on it for the rest of the day. So, I mean, it's pretty for ads. You can just have loads of ads.
Richard Hill:
You've got to admit, yeah. Even on Facebook, you obviously get the TikTok’s on Facebook. It's just, "Why am I watching this?" But you're, half an hour's gone by-
Thea Chippendale:
I know. It's crazy.
Richard Hill:
So when we talk about digital PR. Just heading back to digital PR. You've got your placement. Your piece has been published by your journalist. Then published again and again and again, et cetera. You've got your 50, 100, 400 mentions whether that's on their websites or on social. But when we sort of go back to this SCM terminology and SEO, we've got this thing called follow and no follow links. Do you have an opinion on that? But in terms of digital PR for link building, and then there's types of links that you can get.
Thea Chippendale:
So I'm not an expert on this. So my answer may be shorter than some SEO experts that you might have and I've only been doing it for nine months. So if I say something wrong, then I give permission to PR and SEO Twitter to tell me off. But I think there is definitely obvious benefits to having a followed link in rankings for... I don't think it's too hard to get a no follow link, but it is something that we actively celebrate as digital PR. Is if we get a followed link, it's obviously better than no followed.
Thea Chippendale:
But I think, a few months ago, Google announced that they do or hinted that they do count no follow links towards helping to send signals to Google about the page. So at the moment, I'd probably say followed links are obviously always going to be the better one, but I don't think there's anything wrong with an NoFollow link. I don't think it should be something that's necessarily seen as extremely bad.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, totally agree. Totally agree. Obviously, ideally want the no, sorry, the follow, but no follow is still, you're still getting a link. There's still that PR element that actual eyeballs, looking at that source. So I think either way is better than nothing. Yeah. Brilliant.
Richard Hill:
So you guys are, you mentioned the beginning, your KPIs, you're sort of targeted for the amount of links that you create for campaigns. You've got a project and a client then is engaging in the agency. Engaging you ultimately, if you're the somebody working on the account to generate X amount of links, is that how it works?
Thea Chippendale:
Yeah, so I think usually it depends really per client and what type of contract they're in, but I think we usually are KPI'd on links.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Yeah. So the more links the better. Brilliant. Okay. So e-commerce, let's go back to, so you're given a project to work on. Let's say, let me think of an industry. We do a lot say in the watch industry. In jewellery, sort of nice sparkly things that can be anything from a hundred quid watch to a 10 grand watch. A nice, nice product. Quite branded. Usually, branded brands, of watch brands. It's quite a big part of our agency. I think a lot of people listening to the podcast will be representing and selling branded products.
Richard Hill:
So what tips and what type of PR pieces would you recommend to people that are selling brands? Like jewellery. If you were selling Tag Heuer watches or I'm trying to think of watch brands. Hugo Boss, you've obviously you got different... you've got the more expensive, the more medium, what PR ideas would you say are good ones for those?
Thea Chippendale:
So, I think it varies obviously quite different to what client you have. So, like you said with maybe a more expensive brand, I think it's maybe more useful to do more of a campaign PR. So creating a actual campaign and then that pushing out via the client. Whereas I would probably say for fashion retailers that are a bit on the lower price bands. So stuff like for Missguided is probably product PR, and I'm obviously new to the industry. So I didn't realize that product PR is commonly seen as quite difficult to get links for. But I definitely think once you have more experience in it and you can visualize a story from the products.
Thea Chippendale:
Then it's a lot more successful, because if you just bundle a random of different products together. Send that out in an email. A journalist is going to be, "What am I giving to my readers here?" Sort of thing. But journalists often get KPI'd on how many social shares they get. How much traffic they get on their articles. So I think if you can look at some products and-
Richard Hill:
So are you actually sending products to journalists then? Is that what you're saying? Or...
Thea Chippendale:
So what we do with Missguided is we round up products. So we will look at the website and think, "Well, they look pretty good." So I think just before the pandemic hit, or as it was lockdown was hitting. We were... There was a lounge wear drop on Missguided. So we angled that to journalists is, "You're staying at home now. May as well... "
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Get your lounge wear on-
Thea Chippendale:
I think there was a discount at the time and for Missguided. So we put that in the headline as well.
Richard Hill:
Were you sending product to them? Or you were just highlighting those products?
Thea Chippendale:
We were just highlighting them and grouping them together for them. So, they could literally just take that email and put that in the article.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. So you're doing the work for them. Or well, to a point and then they can take that. Put their own spin, their own angle on it.
Thea Chippendale:
We actively will targets stuff like that. E-commerce journalists specifically, and sort of money saving journalists, because they love stuff like that. Because like I said, they either KPI'd on people that go in on it. So we've seen, as somebody who sees, "Oh. Lounge wear I need that now." And "Oh, there's a saving on it." They're like, "Oh, yes."
Richard Hill:
So you say, e-commerce. Have you got any for the guys that are listening in to the podcast, any sort of good resources to find e-commerce journalists? Where there is a go to resource, or be paid or even recommend?
Thea Chippendale:
For stuff that's free. What I would do would probably be, go onto these big public publications, and look for that specific section of... I think you can find some of the journalists in the money sections or savings sections. Sometimes they're even in the lifestyle sections. But if not, we use Roxhill, but that's a paid for tool. So, but yeah.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Great, great. I think lots of great stuff there. I think it's some amazing things you've been working on. I mean, such a short space of time. So I think, some amazing value there. I think those, that guys that are leaving Uni, that are in that, I think this is a great episode. Obviously some great ideas around digital PR there. So what I always like to do is finish each episode with a book recommendation. So I don't know if you're an avid reader, but what book would you recommend to our listeners?
Thea Chippendale:
See, when I saw this question, I was like, I don't actually have any books.
Richard Hill:
Okay.
Thea Chippendale:
But I can recommend places online that are your-
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Yeah, that's fine.
Thea Chippendale:
So I would probably recommend a few things. So there's a thing called Content Curated, which is run by a guy called Mark Porter. You can sign up to it and it's a monthly newsletter and he rounds up all of the best PR and content campaigns of the month. It's just really useful. I think he includes stuff like the best PR people to follow and stuff like that. So it's really useful each month to see what other people are doing as well and to be able to see what's going on.
Thea Chippendale:
There's also a Twitter page called Digital PR Examples that's actually, was founded by Carrie. What she basically, or our team as well, share a digital PR campaigns, content and campaigns that we've seen, that we think are useful to other people. There's loads of really good people with blogs, that do some really good advice. So I think there's a lot of stuff online and Twitter. I think Twitter's a fantastic place. I feel like PR and SEO Twitter's like this underground clan, that nobody knows about.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
Thea Chippendale:
"Oh. All these people."
Richard Hill:
Yeah. It's a whole new world on Twitter when it comes to digital PR. Well, thank you so much for being a guest here. It's been lovely to talk to you. The guys that are listening in who want to find out more about yourself. What's the best place to find out more and contact you directly if they want to?
Thea Chippendale:
On Twitter probably. My handle is Thea Lauren Chippendale. But I feel like that's a really big mouthful to-
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Lauren Chippendale.
Thea Chippendale:
Actually, it's not. I'm whining and it's just Thea Chippendale.
Richard Hill:
Changed it. Thea Chippendale. Well, thank you so much for being a guest and I look forward to seeing, following your journey as well over these next few years, and we'll speak to you soon. Thank you.
Thea Chippendale:
It has been a pleasure for me.