E09: Simon Akers

Richard:
Welcome to another episode of eCom@One. Today's guest is Simon Akers. Now Simon I've known for about three or four months now, and as some of you will know who listen to the podcast regularly, the businesses and the agencies moved into the mosaic at Lincoln, which is a new digital co-working hub and working hub for digital creatives and the digital agency folk, and one of the chaps that I met there was Simon and myself and Simon hit it off pretty much as soon as we met. We've had a lot of very interesting marketing strategy, a lot of personal chats, which we're going to dive into as well. Welcome to podcast Simon.
Simon:
Thanks for having me, Rich.
Richard:
Simon has an agency. Is agency the terminology that is used?
Simon:
Yeah, absolutely.
Richard:
Called Archmon, which is a growth market consultancy working with brands on their growth strategy. Simon has been in the digital agency, world of growth marketing, digital marketing for about 15 years. Welcome to the podcast, Simon.
Simon:
Thank you very much for having me, Richard. It's a pleasure to be sat down with you.
Richard:
Brilliant. I think it would be good for you to kick off, if that's okay, and just tell us a little bit about your career story and specifically around performance marketing, digital marketing.
Simon:
Performance?
Richard:
Performance.
Simon:
Performance, yeah. I'm not done much farming actually. Now, I'm back in Lincolnshire, I probably should to be honest. I guess from my point of view, things started out when I graduated in 2004. I graduated in geography, which is obviously the most natural conduit to marketing and media. But actually, what it did, it enabled be to get quite passionate about things like data. I did a dissertation on the redevelopment of Birmingham cities and it needed it at the time, if anyone from Birmingham is listening. But the Bull Ring was quite an impressive development and it was how different urban areas interact with different social groups and demographics.
Simon:
My first job out of university was with Experian and that data was things like a commercial mosaic where you could look at different demographics and whatnot. My first job was a sales job. I came out of university and went through a recruitment agency that placed graduate talent in corporate. This is great. I took a job, bought my cheap suit and went to a couple of interviews, got a job. I was like, this is great. This is me, in telemarketing, so I think the sales ... I actually do credit a lot of what I feel like I know and learnt over the years now on my early sales experience because-
Richard:
When you were earning your stripes, sort of thing, back in the day.
Simon:
Absolutely. Yeah. I really think that's a thing, Rich. I obviously think a few years of doing sales pretty successfully, I was able to transition
Richard:
What were you selling back in the day then?
Simon:
I was mainly selling commercial risk solutions, so credit score cards and understanding data and businesses and whether they're lendable, real time insight into the company with which you're going to deal and then off there, there's a cross sell into marketing data and marketing solutions. Experian, absolute beast, great company. I spent a couple of years there.
Simon:
I have some time at Vodafone, doing also sales. I was then thrust into the world of lead generation, because I was working with a couple of outsource lead gen solution businesses, and I thought to myself, sometimes they're good, sometimes they're mediocre. I thought to myself, if there's a way that I could get involved, that would be great. So spent a bit of time at some businesses, working in lead gen. From there, that then graduated to performance marketing because performance felt almost like the umbrella discipline for demand gen and lead gen.
Simon:
Then from there, that dovetailed into understanding acquisition. What became was originally lead gen and affiliates and mail and whatnot, it became more of an interdisciplinary thing around understanding social, when that came out, and people spending years. How do you make money out of Facebook? That was the chat 10 years ago. I think people have nailed that now. Facebook have nailed it. I think now it's a case of utilizing hopefully that interdisciplinary experience to bring together those different channels and actually understanding that every channel plays its part in the acquisition of a new customer.
Simon:
So obviously with that, buying to search, programmatic, social and then obviously offline direct response channels like print, out of home, radio and there's all these different broadcast channels that can help with the brand, that can ultimately drive further performance and grow the audience, which ultimately impacts, for example, the work that you guys do at eCom@One. So that would be, I suppose my story as I sit here today. That's the early part of-
Richard:
Early days, and now you run Archmon.
Simon:
I do. It runs me actually, but I do. I set a parchment in May. I think I spent a lot of time going ... I'm sure, but I spent quite a bit of time trying different things, looking at different ways of working, having some fairly senior roles in some bigger agencies and it felt like high time for a number of reasons to start my own consultancy, and I liked the idea of contracting to certain businesses, maybe doing my own thing. As you've mentioned to me in passing, I do like to dabble in PowerPoint, well it's actually Google Slides for collaboration.
Simon:
I just thought I can do this for a number of clients who maybe need it, and you can maybe effect more change. I actually quite like working with smaller businesses as much as larger businesses and I've basically spent a few months working with a couple of great clients and I'm probably a month ... it'll be month 11 now, will it be?
Richard:
Yeah.
Simon:
I've got the two month notice about submitting my accounts this morning. So yes, it is month 11 and here we go. We're positive and hopefully we grow..
Richard:
So we'll be coming up to your first year anniversary in eight, nine, 10 weeks of the new agency.
Simon:
Absolutely.
Richard:
Fantastic.
Simon:
Caterpillar cake from Tesco's.
Richard:
I think we've definitely had ... the Morrison's share value over the last few years in the confectionary aisle, that's for sure. About a year into the agency, your own agency journey and 13, 14 years working for multiple brands around the world. I'm looking at obviously a lot of things I didn't know when I looked at a lot of the articles you've written and a lot of ... you used to do a lot of traveling. You used to spend a lot of time in and out, I think working with brands in Asia and America and things like that.
Simon:
Yeah.
Richard:
Whereas now, you miss the travel. Are you still doing quite a bit of travel?
Simon:
No. I've done less of it but I appreciate it more because I do it less. I think when you're in a job and they put you up in business class and you're in the lounge and you're sending frenetic emails before you're offline for 10 hours, it loses its magic a little bit, I'll be honest. It's a lot different to when you go on holiday and then you go through security and you forget you've got any fiscal responsibility and you end up smashing money on aftershaves and sunglasses you don't need. That's the travel we like.
Richard:
A pint of lager at half four in the morning.
Simon:
Yeah. I'm still doing that. I needed it. I think that was my medicine. But actually, I think business travel, I will say, until you do it, it's quite exciting. Then when you do it, it's actually quite overrated. I think sometimes after the fact, I think you can appreciate things and the experience it gives you. You're working with different cultures, understanding how different ... the way the Americans are compared to the French, compared to Koreans and Spanish. There's a lot of different cultural nuances and you learn that on the job. I think it's really important. I think it shapes you, hopefully understanding and empathy down the years as well. I like to think so anyway.
Richard:
Brilliant. Right. Let's kick off with some Q&A. What do you mean when you talk about simplifying marketing?
Simon:
I think I said that I've worked with a lot of different channels, and in there, there's often a lot of different metrics. For example, with brand marketing, we don't know the exact footfall or how we can attribute certain outcomes to that marketing, so we might do brand studies, or with YouTube for example, you can measure click through rates. I always say if you're looking for clicks, why are you putting the video on? Use the right tool. I feel like marketing is a toolbox. Different media channels are different tools, a corkscrew, a sharp knife, whatever. You have to use the right knife, the right tool, for the right job.
Simon:
I think sometimes we've all become a little bit beguiled by different measurements. So Facebook and Google give you all these reports of all these different things. With respect, a lot of them can be pretty meaningless if they're not aligned with your marketing strategy. I always say to my clients, usually, and the main premise of Archmon is simple, bold, direct. There's usually one or two very clear KPIs of what should be issued for a business outcome. It would be a sale, it could be a lead, it could be grow your brand. Once you know what that key goal is, you should surely be only using the measurements in the report or the channels that support that.
Richard:
So understanding that key goal to start with, what are we trying to achieve so three months, six months, 12 months, I'm going we only got blah, blah, blah sales. We only got ROI of two times. We didn't say we were after ROAS or whatever-
Simon:
Correct.
Richard:
... we were after brand. We didn't say that at the beginning.
Simon:
This is it. You know yourself, Richard, the tail can wag the dog, and people are saying Facebook is doing this thing where I can do this cool new ad or a rep comes in from a new media owner and they want to, I don't know, try different things. Ultimately, it's easy to be charmed by these new shiny things. I'm all about, by the way, trying to give innovative new ideas and my clients. However, within reason, it's tempering that pragmatism with the testing mindset.
Richard:
So maybe a percentage of spend.
Simon:
Yeah, exactly.
Richard:
To test markets, to test new platforms or new areas within new platforms-
Simon:
Absolutely. Absolutely, Richard. I think it's important to not be stagnant and try new things, but going back to my main point about this is bringing out the things that actually matter. So if you have a tried and trusted way of working, ruthlessly apply it. If you know the way you set up your ad groups drives results for a certain type of client, be absolutely confident in sharing that with another client and saying don't worry client, it still applies, but just making sure that if you know you're really good at something, maximize it, use your unfair advantage. I think the trouble is, sometimes things get conflated with nice shiny new things that are sold-
Richard:
I think that's an absolutely great bit of advice. If you've got a channel that's working, go deep, go really deep into that channel and really go focus on that. But of course, you want to have that maybe five, 10, 20% dependent on the resources to hand, and making sure you're not jeopardizing the area that's working really well but testing stuff out.
Simon:
It comes back to the human condition of doing one thing well. If you try and multitask, you do a few things all right. Just do one thing really bloody well. Actually, of course you can't ... there's a diminishing return on search, for example, so I say to my clients, if you put all your money in search, fine but then you won't spend your money because there might not be an audience to capture. So you need to invest in brand or mid funnel stuff to grow the audience, which ultimately subsequently gets captured in search. So it's actually understanding the nuance of that but just maximize where you can.
Richard:
I think all too often, you see these agencies that are maybe, right, we're a full service. We do this, this, this, this, this and this and I always wonder, I think we, to be fair, have dabbled in and put our hand up and said we do a lot of stuff over the years but we have very much spun it round completely 360 this last 18 months where we've really tightened up the services that we offer.
Simon:
You know what? Since I've started running my own business as well, because this is my second business by the way, I had a flawed business buying and selling a few years ago. I failed because honestly I wasn't making any money and I couldn't afford to live, which was a challenge. So obviously-
Richard:
You learnt a lot.
Simon:
You learn, yeah.
Richard:
I think you've got to make that call. You've got to focus on-
Simon:
That's what I was going to say.
Richard:
You've got to focus on one strength or two, a small bucket of strengths, potentially but obviously there's always going to be, what's this new, everyone's been on about da da da, that natural curiosity.
Simon:
Absolutely. I think when you're an employee, you're in close look at strengths and weaknesses and all this rounded thing, like I'm good at that but he's not good at that, or she's great at that. She could be better at that. I think that's good for development but I do think it comes to a point where you need to almost respect your own asymmetry and actually go right, I have an advantage here, I need to capitalize on that strength. When you work for yourself, it's all about me maximizing my strengths, not ... my weaknesses can sometimes be certain maybe attention to details or whatever, or maybe on the ... going into ads manage or search, I don't do that stuff anymore.
Simon:
So the premise of Archmon is that I deliver the plans and the strategies to clients and I work with a suite of partners who are much better than me at what they do-
Richard:
That go deep into the-
Simon:
Who can then deliver on that strategy much more incisively and more effectively than I would if I tried to take it all on myself as the big man. That is where I think it's important to know your strengths and know what you're okay at, and then you can outsource.
Richard:
I agree. I think as an entrepreneur, business owner, I think it's been for me, especially these last probably couple of years, really taking what you're saying there, and it's so easy to get frustrated with trying to do it all and be amazing at it all but the reality is, we've got strengths and we've got areas where we're just not as natural. We're not in our flow, as I think a lot of people use that terminology.
Richard:
There's certain areas of my business, I hate to say it but I'm not great at it, but I think if I chose to push and do it, then I would be okay at it. Why do I want to push uphill, when I know I've got guys here that are 50 times better than me at certain other things what we do, so they do stuff. Just being able to let go within your business and say you know what? Let's get an expert to do that. Obviously if we can hire somebody. If we can't hire somebody, who have you got within your team or obviously eCommerce stores, if you're just starting out can be more challenging. But that first hire, quite often can be quite a very, very challenging point, but then you've got to weigh up.
Richard:
When you're killing yourself doing these 70 hour weeks and doing maybe five pound an hour tasks, whereas you know full well, we could be doing tasks where you're negotiating your deal on 20,000 pounds worth of stock, save 2000 pounds, going to meet the supplier and having the proper higher level meetings, or you're sitting there figuring out how to format an Excel spreadsheet, when you know you can find somebody or whatever that element is. Just taking a step back and really-
Simon:
We're basically recording what we talk about in the kitchen here, Rich, this is great. Totally. Today is the first day that I think I mentioned it to you. I was recruiting a virtual admin assistant to help me with certain things. Because I was spending my Saturday mornings uploading pictures of train line receipts to my accounting software. It's just a waste of my time. If I'm monetizing myself on say an hourly basis or a project basis or for clients, then I can't be spending my time doing stuff that I could be outsourcing for a different cost per hour. It's just not a good use of my time. Paula, the woman, she seems great, and I think that she's going to do things probably a lot more efficiently than I would and again, it comes back to that point, maximizing your strength but also knowing where you're just taking too long.
Richard:
What would be the first ... how would somebody listening in decide on that first hire, or that first decision to go, you know what, I need to get some help with that, I'm wasting my time? What do you think would be a first step?
Simon:
I think it's just maximizing ... you look at your time and you realize how much of it is spent on the right things. I actually started using this thing called Clockify, right? You can call me a bit a of a loser. I've been called far worse. I'm using a time sheet software and what I do everyday, I quickly jump down on this time sheet thing, and you add a project, whether it's billable work or non-billable work. Within the non-billable work, I've got three shades of green. I've got business development, which is obviously me pitching clients, business management, which is like your operational stuff, expenses and whatnot, and then I've got partnerships, which is a big part of my business.
Simon:
I want to be maximizing ... of those three cohorts, I want to be doing ... I've done a lot of my partnership building now, so I want it to be 80% business development and 20% partnerships. Business management in respect should be minimal. I think that's it, thinking I'm spending too much time doing the things that ... it's just not moving the business forward. I read somewhere in a book and it's actually impacted me in a positive way since the new year, is every day, ask yourself in the morning, what can you do to move the business forward? I looked at my time sheets and I was like, I need to scrap that business management part of the day. That is way too high.
Richard:
Spending too much time on the bits. Great. We talked about different channels where we touched on a few different channels and specialized in testing other areas, but obviously eCom@One is the podcast name, so eCommerce specifically. Tips for eCommerce owners. I know you've worked on a lot of different strategy with different brands for a long time.
Simon:
Yeah. I was the global eCommerce lead for Samsung mobile when I was a publicist.
Richard:
Incredible.
Simon:
Actually, I think my old business, publicists, I think they were on either a talk or a panel with campaign a couple of week ago. The CEO, she said something like ... which is a really good point actually about eCommerce, we spend so much time ... if you're selling shoes in a shop or bags, you're investing in this experience, this physical store. You're investing in the lighting, the furniture, the ambiance, the pictures on the wall, the way it's presented, the touchy feely personal shopping, for want of a better phrase. The amount of people who just ... they don't apply that same love and care to their eCommerce website. I just think to myself, this is your shop window. This is your electronic shop window. Of course you have your product fees and you have your very binary Amazon product shops and PDPs and you have your feeds and everything which is very modular and there's just a white background with a picture of your shoe. But actually, a lot of your activity will be people experiencing it.
Simon:
For example, the analogy that I always use is, if you are making it hard to checkout and buy, so for example if your looking at a shoe you like, rather than just click add to basket, buy now, please wait, redirect you to world pay, connect, back. This is a long process. It's the equivalent of me going into a shop, waiting at the till but the owner's gone out for lunch and I'm waiting for him to come back. It's the same thing. You wouldn't part with it.
Richard:
No.
Simon:
What I'd say is I'd walk out of that shop. What do you think is going to happen, if I go onto a website and I can't check out easily and buy your product? You're meant to make it easy for me-
Simon:
That's the thing. I think it's experience.
Richard:
Making things very slick, fast, a nice experience, a personalized experience.
Simon:
Be cogent as well. You can't do this wonderful Instagram story with shop now and great offer, runs out tomorrow. I'm like okay, this is a time limited offer, we need to make the most of this, I'm going to click shop now on the bottom of this story. Where does the site take me? To the generic home page. I'm like right okay, I've lost my train of thought now. Do I need to click on product search by type or do I need to click on offers? I don't know. I need you to guide my journey. This is essentially a market in sat nav-
Richard:
You just lost them haven't you?
Simon:
Yeah, exactly.
Richard:
If that's the case.
Simon:
It's like a sat nav. The job of the marketer on the journey is to take people on your buying sat nav, almost. If you don't, you're talking them down a road that hasn't been built yet and it's a nightmare.
Richard:
Great.
Simon:
That's what really ... it just grinds my gears, to be honest. If I go on a website and it takes me to a generic page, I'm like I can't be bothered.
Richard:
The amount of paid ads we see where we're auditing probably three or four new potential ad accounts a week, and straightaway looking at the ads, okay, most of our clients ads are okay when they come to us but then you see them, it's like okay, where are they landing them? Oh my god, they're selling, like you say, literally a white pair of shoes. Where are they landing them? They're landing them on the generic shoe category page. It's like you're joking.
Simon:
Then the other point, the flip side of this of course is if you don't do that, someone else will. We all know how aggressive remarketing is on social channels, right?
Richard:
Yeah.
Simon:
Last Saturday, I went out with my dad, went down to have a coffee at Damon's in Lincoln.
Richard:
Yeah, birthday.
Simon:
Yeah, charity. It wasn't a birthday. It was just a freebie. My dad enjoyed it.
Richard:
Damon's is a local rib, American style restaurant, isn't it? It's been-
Simon:
It is. Sorry. Just for context if you're listening, it's the beacon of Lincoln food scene. I had my ninth birthday there. So I'm 26-
Richard:
I think I went on my 14th, some years ago.
Simon:
Same day.
Richard:
I definitely went on my 21st, I remember. I remember going on my 21st.
Simon:
Has had a birthday at Damon's.
Richard:
It's free on your birthday. For those that are listening, free on your birthday.
Simon:
Seriously, went down there. Looked at the cars, great experience and gave them a couple of details and it was really a nice experience. For example, we went into the Mercedes dealer. I'm probably punching with a couple of the prices that I was looking at, but what I do remember is the great customer experience. They get you a coffee, you sit down. It's all very good, right?
Richard:
Yeah.
Simon:
I went on Carwow, I think it was, quite a good website actually. What I've realized is that the automotive space is changing massively.
Richard:
Huge.
Simon:
It's huge. People are cutting out the dealers. You're getting cheaper PCPs direct through Carwow or leasing.com or whatever. What I realized is I looked at one website and I got re-targeted for this car. What happened was, I went onto the site and I look at it, play around, you reduce the PCP-
Richard:
This is Carwow, yeah.
Simon:
I don't want to put them
Richard:
No. I've been on it. I spend a lot of time on Carwow-
Simon:
It's great, the reviews. I love it-
Richard:
The reviews. The reviewers are great.
Simon:
Yeah, because content. They know the content sells because people want to know what it's like inside the car, et cetera. You go onto it and straight to the page and you have a little toy, and you dial down on the toggle bar, like how much you want to put in also being me, I want to put as little as possible. Then it tells you how much you spent-
Richard:
What you can afford.
Simon:
Exactly, right. Which is like, you can't do that one, nevermind. But what happens is, all these other wolves are re-targeting me, Elease, Mylease, Dave's Lease, you know, Joe's Lease-
Richard:
Literally all you're seeing on your feed now.
Simon:
Exactly. Then you go onto it and you really do see ... now back to the original point, you really do see the disparity of experiences. Some go straight into the PDP for the car and other ones go into explore or some nebulous video or test drive.
Richard:
So that experience, I think is a quick shot, if you like. In terms of eCom, we're saying we've got a very slick, fast, nice user experience. But what would you say has been the best growth strategy that you've delivered over the years for an eCom store?
Simon:
It's such a tricky question.
Richard:
We like to push you a little bit.
Simon:
It depends on a few things. I absolutely cannot take full credit for this, because I was working with a great team over at the big agency but the senior market manager over at BT wrote me a testimonial last week and he said that on one of their campaigns, it's quite a short lived campaign, they doubled their year on year sales for broadband.
Richard:
Wow.
Simon:
Thanks to ... this is BT, by the way…One of the biggest advertisers in the UK probably is BT Group. They doubled their year on year sales-
Richard:
Can you tell us a little bit about it, or is it a little bit tricky?
Simon:
I'm not sure how much I can go into it but all I'll say is that I got involved. Essentially, I think it was more about looking at targeting. There's a number of core planning tenets that went into it. Number one, understanding the mindset about when people are looking and when people are converting. For example, say hypothetically it was a student, there's times where they're looking at it and then there's always that last minute, oh shit, I need to buy some broadband…
Richard:
Understanding those personas.
Simon:
Yeah, and their timings. I think secondly is understanding the market and looking at the price and everything and ensuring if they're in market for that price, how do you position against that? If you can compete on price, compete on price. If you can't compete on price, compete on value and experience and the, we're designed for you kind of thing. I think by utilizing some of those cohorts and also working very, very closely with a creative agency and the student ambassador marketing agency, you're able to generate a campaign to double your sales. I was part of that.
Simon:
On a smaller level, I'd say I'd spend some time generating some leads for O2, their call centre. That was all about looking at the wording of a question for capture and then looking at the timing and the weight and it's all about diminishing return, Rich. You know this. The more you spend, the more leads you can get, the lower the conversion goes, but then it's all about how you want to do it. Do you want to convert 10% of 100 or one percent of 1000? I always ask that question to people
Simon:
I've worked with other brands for example, Taste Card, Pact Coffee. I've worked with a number of B2C brands who work on subscription and it's getting people on and understanding the lifetime value. So sometimes I'm proud to have been able to say bring people ... you can do a split test. You do free for three months, which will get more people ...
Richard:
Sorry, free for three months?
Simon:
Yeah. Say free double taste card, and all that, that kind of thing. Free for three months might be a good way to get someone on but are they going to stay on because are they going to be the right kind of lifetime value for the customer?
Richard:
There seems to be a real upsurge in eCommerce subscription, isn't there? Especially-
Simon:
Eight weeks or the Economist, the Times, it's everywhere-
Richard:
Especially in the health sector. A lot of food prep type companies.
Simon:
Hello Fresh, that sort of thing.
Richard:
Diet supplements. I want to say shakes, the type of ... I can't think of the brands now. Huel, is that an-
Simon:
Huel, yes.
Richard:
I don't know if they actually do free-
Simon:
I feel like they-
Richard:
They offer subscription. I'm assuming they're a subscription actually. There seems to be a real upsurge in my feed on Facebook in particular-
Simon:
B2C subscriptions. There are subscription for everything. I saw someone yesterday on Linkedin and they were joking about, I think Panera bread in America. They're doing 10 dollars a month subscription for coffees. It's like, how many direct debits are you going to have to cancel in 10 years time? It's going to be 500.
Richard:
I think that's a real ... actually while you're on that, direct debits, I think I encourage anybody that's in eCommerce, you sign up to all these different things, slight tangent here but you're going to sign up for the things that you're going to want for your personal life, like your bread or whatever it may be but the amount of tools and softwares, et cetera, that you sign up for, and then the next thing you know, you look at your bank statement, eight months later thinking geez, I'm spending 300 pound a month on this stuff and I never even use it.
Simon:
It's crazy.
Richard:
Just going through every couple of months and just checking those direct debits, checking those PayPal reoccurring payments and getting them deleted.
Simon:
Trust me, now I'm self employed, I'm ruthless with my standing orders. It's really difficult and little things. There's some things I won't compromise on, like Spotify. I am never going leave, even If I'm out on the street, that 9.99 is going out. I need my music.
Richard:
I know too that I've seen recently a perfume subscription, so 9.99 a month. When you first start off, they give you a little spray container that sits in your pocket. It's just a small one that you can carry around, a little cartridge in it. Then each month, they send you a new cartridge so you get a plastic cartridge-
Simon:
That's quite cool.
Richard:
So each month, you get to try a top brand of smelly-
Simon:
So rather than every six months spending 90 quid on something, you actually-
Richard:
Then if you like the one that you got as your sample that month, you can then ... I think it's 9.99 rings a bell, or 8.99, you can then order the full 50 mil, 100 mil and get the 8.99 knocked off the 50 mil, something like that. I thought it was quite good. Then another one I saw, because I'm a bit of a sock freak, I like nice funky socks. Let me see what I've got on today. Not too bad.
Simon:
That's some great sock-
Richard:
I saw a sock subscription website the other day targeted to me. I didn't sign up-
Simon:
That's good though because people need socks and it's like cars, they're a massive, one of the biggest decisions you'll make when you buy one. Thousands of pounds, massive outlay. Socks, you're looking at seven or eight quid. Come on, we go through socks.
Richard:
I think it's an essential accessory-
Simon:
You need socks. It's like the Amazon thing. You can subscribe to ... I worked with Pact Coffee, for example. People like their coffee and I think the coffee thing really kicked off about six or seven years ago when they did it, and working on that position. Going back to the question about growth strategy by the way, there's two types of things. For example, people like Taste Card and Pact Coffee, you could do the three month free thing or you could do for a pound, and actually the material difference to the consumer is not much difference between free and a pound, but the mechanics are massively different to the end advertiser because actually, they're already in the mindset of paying this person-
Richard:
They've already paid a pound-
Simon:
And also, most people know ... they're not daft enough to know, if they pay something, they know it's going to continue. Where if it's free, there's often this pre barrier up that's like, I don't need to pay. So actually a real growth strategy sets a consumer from the start, knowing that they're going to have to pay and setting that precedent.
Richard:
They have to use their card straightaway as well.
Simon:
Yeah, or like me just cancel everything. I'm so bad. Over Christmas, I registered the Independent. I think it was like five pounds for three months. I like reading the Independent. I try and be as objective as possible. I'm not sure if that does that but I try and do that, and I've actually got a note on my ... I use my iPhone notes for calendar. I said 9th of March, cancel Independent because I'm not paying that £23 whatever it is.
Simon:
I think as long as you keep on top of it, my advice to anyone is maximize as a consumer, but if you're an advertiser, get people in the mindset of payment from the start. I think giving things away for free can be dangerous. It's a great acquisition play. Obviously it depends if you're looking for investment or acquisition, your target is acquisition or profit, and everything depends but I think it's good to get people regardless in the mindset of-
Richard:
Get them used ... great one. We'll shift it slightly then to a bit around your career and some advice that you may give to the listeners. What would you say is one main turning point in your career to date?
Simon:
We're doing this now. I think for me it was a couple of years ago. I think a couple of years ago when I was working on Samsung, it's the biggest account in the world. It was a huge thing and that's when I was talking about not exactly enjoying the duty free. I was actually in the lounge doing my writing and everything like that. I just hit a wall and I got pretty ill. I openly ... I've talked about this on Linkedin, on Instagram, and Facebook, I think it's been very important to do so. I burnt out. I got myself very ill and I was trying to constantly ... I thought I can't let this down. I've got a big job, working with a beast of a client. I've got to get this right.
Simon:
I held myself to such high account, almost to the point of perfection, to the point of anger, to the point of burnout, because I wasn't sleeping. I was waking up to emails from Asia and going to bed with Skypes in North America. I never really slept. Actually, I realized that there's actually a diminishing return in you, if you never rest and you need to rest. That was the critical moment, and I signed off work for about three or four months. Openly I've talked about this. I went to the doctors. They recommended I take some counselling and I did that, a cognitive behavioural therapy which sometimes I feel like it works, sometimes it doesn't. It depends, like I say, this is a separate conversation but different things work for different people but it was good to get out of the frying pan and it made me take time out.
Simon:
I think that shaped me, Richard. I think a year and a half later, I left London in October and I moved back to Newark, where I live, and that's why I'm sat here with you now. The best thing about the is I'm sat here speaking to you, Richard. But seriously, I think sometimes the harsh reality is you need almost a bad experience to shape what ... it's a shame it has to come to that-
Richard:
I'll just say, those that are listening in, that are maybe having similar experiences to what you were having 18 months ago, and over the period prior to that, what would you say would be something that they can ... what would be a first step for them, to maybe just break that cycle?
Simon:
It's a good question, Rich. I think a lot of people ... there's no one size fits all magic pill or panacea to this. I think every person has their own way of coping with things. But I think it's being open about it. I think it's talking and never being afraid to talk, because I think the thing is, and I've talked about imposter syndrome and all kinds of things in the past, the thing that we have ... the trouble that we have as humans, is that we put way too much providence of not what people think but how much time people think about us. People don't think about you nearly as much as you think they do. You think about you more than anyone thinks you do, right?
Richard:
Yeah.
Simon:
Actually, use that as a positive. Invest in yourself, talk to someone else. They don't want to think oh god, here he goes again. Actually open up because I think everyone has an answer. Often, people are much better at helping other people out than they are themselves. I'll often try and support people and give them support and give them advice but when it comes to my own stuff, I can be ... it's almost like hypocrisy. I don't look after myself as much as I should. But actually what I'd say, if you speak to people, you might be actually surprised. A bit of faith in humanity can be restored-
Richard:
That's a first step of just-
Simon:
Opening up.
Richard:
I've got a few challenges at the moment, I'm struggling a little bit. I want to chat about-
Simon:
I really believe that a problem shared is a problem halved, as well. As you know, I work for myself. At times, I'm like, fully openly, I had a really bad week a couple of weeks ago. I felt completely burnt out. I'm on my own again. I know you identify the symptoms. One thing that the therapy taught me is about being quite mindful about understanding the signs when it kicks in, and I start to feel myself get very anxious, I wasn't eating well. I had headaches. I comfort eat. That's my thing. Food is amazing, right? I'll eat, go on just eat and smash something and I'm feeling great. I know that.
Simon:
That makes you feel worse but it's breaking the habit and knowing actually, if you feel like eating some pizza or a kebab, instead, make yourself a salad with some chicken breast, whatever. If you're vegan, don't use chicken breast, but actually you'll realize what every cause has an effect. Then you start to realize that the inputs drive the outputs. That's something that ... my main thing I would say on that is generally, number one, speak to someone, whether it's a counsellor or a friend, or even a forum. Whatever works for you, don't share because a problem shared is a problem halved.
Simon:
Secondly, when you start to recognize the things that make you feel like crap, think about what you can do next time to not go there, because every cause has an effect. For example, if I feel down, I fancy a McDonald's. Then after McDonald's I feel worse because I've had a McDonald's and I feel fat and disgusting. Whereas actually if I shifted that mindset, I feel like a McDonald's because I feel like crap, however, I'll have a salad instead. Then you feel, I'm blessed, this kind of thing. I think it's just knowing your triggers.
Richard:
Having things in your armoury so that when certain thoughts and certain actions come into the fore, to have a ... we all love a McDonald's but we all know we don't ... as soon as we've had it, we all feel a bit-
Simon:
My danger is when I drive between my flat and Lincoln, there's two golden arches there. So stop it, Ronald McDonald, please.
Richard:
Great. We touched on, you talked about imposter syndrome. I think ...
Simon:
Yeah.
Richard:
It's an interesting one.
Simon:
We talked about that. I wrote for the Book of Man, brilliant website by the way. They talk about ... obviously, traditionally, the reason there's a Book of Man is that there's been a lot of things about male mental health. The suicide rate in young men is terrible. I think it's the biggest killer of men under 35. So please do fact check this, but it's a well known thing that men are traditionally worse at opening up about their feelings. Men are worse at talking. It's all about soaring pride and being one of the lads, and I've been there myself. Sometimes, for want of a better phrase, it's bullshit because actually it's very important to actually just be honest about your ... if you can own your vulnerabilities and actually own your problems, you actually end up more powerful and more confident because you work out what ... you lay it out. This is what I'm bad at but I know I'm going to be good. You can only go upwards from there.
Simon:
I think with imposter syndrome, going back to that point, I listen to the daily stoic podcast, which is fantastic, and I'll come to that in a little bit. They interviewed this guy. It was about imposter syndrome and he said, "Look, people do not think about you as much as you think they do. No one's looking at you going, you're going to get found out. I'm watching you, you're going to fail." That's in your head.
Simon:
Often, imposter syndrome comes from ... when I was working on Samsung, I had imposter syndrome. I got that job through working hard for years, merit, learning and developing myself to a point in my career where I could take that big job. It was big for me. But that's not to say that you're always going to be fortified from feelings. So you get a big job but then because it was tiring and because when you're tired, you might make mistakes. When I make mistakes you lose your confidence, whatever. My confidence dipped, so there was a gap between where I was on paper and where I was in my head. That's when the imposter feeling comes from because it's the gap between how you feel and what you do. But actually, again, it's in your head. No one else. I don't know. Hopefully, people looked at me and didn't think I was completely floundering, but you feel like that and that's it.
Richard:
You see that thing as a 10, blown it out of all proportion, where the reality ... a major thing but maybe you think I'm doing this presentation, I've got one little thing wrong and that's it. The whole presentation has gone to shit. In reality, they haven't even spotted it.
Simon:
We do though. We put provenance on that.
Richard:
You've written off the day, you've written off the next day. You're going to bed thinking oh my god, that presentation. But the reality is, it was fantastic.
Simon:
I always say that when people ask me about public speaking, because I've done guest lecturing and talks and whatnot-
Richard:
Yeah. You do a lot, don't you?
Simon:
I should do more.
Richard:
You've got to stop at the university
Simon:
I did the university. I did guest lecturing, brilliant. I really enjoyed that with the first year students. I think one of them are hopefully doing their summer placement, which will be great. I always say to people, nobody knows what's in your head. So if you ... for example, you get off stage or you do ... I might finish this podcast and think oh Christ, I didn't say that. But you guys aren't listening going, Simon hasn't said that.
Richard:
No.
Simon:
It's all in your head. It's like if you present to a client or you have a call with a client and it goes well. We're naturally programmed and wired to think about the negatives. We're going to go, I should've told him about that thing we do, because he would've liked that.
Richard:
We all do it, don't we?
Simon:
We all do it.
Richard:
There's always ... what would you say ... I think one of the things I'm quite keen to explore is routines and the certain routines that people have maybe in a day, in a morning, and I think I'm a big believer that consistent routines of a certain type can really push you through and become ... so you can become ... get into better routines rather than the McDonald's for breakfast everyday routine, or the negative self talk routines-
Simon:
Every other day, come on.
Richard:
We love you McDonald's but ... what sort of routines do you try and work into your days, into your weeks to help with the mental side, the ... any potential challenges that you know that you're-
Simon:
I think I've been ... I don't think I've been the best at it lately, to be perfectly honest. However, I had a bit of an epiphany, because I actually tore my calf muscle in December. Let's not talk about it. It's a great story. I've had a couple of months on crutches and I came off it. I actually went to the gym for the first time yesterday in three months and luckily, I was there first thing in the morning on a Sunday, so when you're blowing our your ass, no one has to actually see you suffer. It would've been a horrible view, I'm sure.
Simon:
But I had a really good day today, and I read a really good article. I think was Entrepreneur or Forbes or something, and a lot of it is just hustle porn, which I don't really buy into. But actually there was some really good advice. There was this eight point plan about looking after yourself as an entrepreneur. Actually, a lot of it does apply to everyone. Things like, for example, learning to unwind. Get your sleep. Learn to say no to things that aren't helping you or anything. All these different things. Nourish yourself, exercise. All the stuff that I do try and do to a degree.
Simon:
Now I'm back on my feet, I'm going to the gym in my building. There's no excuse I walk round. It's terrible. I walk past to have coffee and a cake everyday and I see people working out-
Richard:
Literally in the building you live in, there's a gym.
Simon:
Yeah.
Richard:
Fantastic.
Simon:
I'm a criminal.
Richard:
There's also a café.
Simon:
Yes. I'm a good value client to a gym because they're taking my money on a direct debit but I'm not depreciating their capital equipment and their assets. So I'd say it's a great win/win. It's great for a gym. Again going back to the subscriptions, it's-
Richard:
So your daily routine is something you're working on at the moment-
Simon:
Yeah, I'm working on it.
Richard:
Because I know you posted on Linkedin a few weeks ago. You touched on it earlier, saying that you had quite a challenging few weeks. I know you obviously recently moved into where we are now, and-
Simon:
Which has been brilliant, by the way.
Richard:
You've been working crazy hours, obviously as we do when we're pushing through new projects, new systems-
Simon:
I know where you're going with this, Friday afternoons.
Richard:
Yeah.
Simon:
I've got a new approach to Fridays. My Friday is, I don't plan anything on Fridays. That's not to say I don't work Fridays. I'm not stacking up my diary. One of the tenets, if you know, wellbeing and balance is to make sure that you give yourself breathing time to think. Even Google, one of the biggest companies in the world, they give 20% time. I know people who work there who don't see that through, but generally they do have the ethos that you should be spending one in five of your hours and days trying to do things that give you inspiration and passion to ultimately, this is putting fuel in your Tesla, isn't it? It's making you good in the other areas.
Simon:
I've realized actually Monday to Thursday is when I book up a lot of my stuff. Monday, Tuesday, I'm generally working on all sorts of different pitches and stuff. Wednesday, Thursday, I'm generally doing strategies for clients and different things. Friday, I try and leave it blank but what I do, I generally keep Friday mornings for the more reactive stuff like finishing a couple of responses to emails, things you don't get around to doing in the next couple of days. I try and give myself a hard stop at 1:00 on a Friday. I'm going to try and give myself Friday lunch times. I've been doing it for three weeks. So I've had two and a half day weekends, and I already feel myself getting better.
Richard:
Yes.
Simon:
I know when you start a business ... I realized I worked every day of January, most of December, over Christmas I was working-
Richard:
Too much.
Simon:
When you run a business, you do put your time in to get it going. I think it's a labor of love and you owe it to yourself to do that, but at the same time, you've got to also understand that we're not bots. We are humans with a return on energy that does diminish.
Richard:
Totally.
Simon:
I think when you know and identify that, you can then go right, I need to take a break because I'm exhausted.
Richard:
Great. I think as well, you come out of Christmas, you get the seasonal thing. New year, new, we're going to smash this. You hit January, it's like ... January goes, you're like bloody hell, that was tough. February kicks in, right. Hang on a minute, I'm knackered. I'm knackered. What the hell am I doing? Step back. Take some time because we're all-
Simon:
Did you go through that?
Richard:
Yeah, absolutely. I had a real-
Simon:
You were full of beans in January.
Richard:
January-
Simon:
Loads of your photo shoots, everything.
Richard:
It was amazing but I got to a point, I think the second, third week of February and I was not in a good place mentally. I was really like god, I'm absolutely jiggered because I hadn't taken enough time out for myself. So I really did take some time like you're saying and stepped back. Hang on a minute, I just need to slow down and look at the things I'm doing and take some time to appreciate what I have done, rather than more, more, more. But we've got some very strong plans, financials and whatnot and targets and everything but hang on a minute. We've had an amazing six weeks.
Simon:
I read about the February effect somewhere. I can't remember where it was now. I wish I could attribute it to the right author but it was essentially that gap, right? My personal theory is that, it's before the weather kicks in but it's after the thrill of January where you kickstart everything. I think that has a knock on impact and this author said that everyone, new year, new me, January, smash, smash, smash. They go on vegan water diets and they meditate upside down for nine hours a night and then they're working. They're just the perfect human beings. Then February hits, you still don't feel it. You're knackered.
Richard:
What's happened?
Simon:
Yeah. I think February is a tough ... from experience, Februarys aren't great actually. I think we need to, as human beings, if there's one thing that anyone takes away from today, it's just be better to yourself in February because February is an obvious delta between the height of January and the pre joy of the spring months.
Richard:
Taking that time for yourself. Taking some time to have a look back at the year. I did XYZ and actually, we've done loads of good stuff.
Simon:
Are you impatient, Rich? Do you get impatient?
Richard:
Very. Anyone that knows me, I'm the worst.
Simon:
Me too.
Richard:
Literally I am the worst person. If I go anywhere and I've got a queue, forget it. I'm either going to the front of that queue which is a rude boy sort of thing, which I'm not going to do, or I'm out-
Simon:
Patience really is a virtue. It's a virtue I'm trying-
Richard:
Both of us have moved into this new space and we're pushing and building our businesses, so got about eight side projects. There's been one of them. When you start looking at them to start with, it's like oh my god, there's so much to do, and there is so much to do. So you get impatient and then you get ... blimey, we're not getting very far but actually, we had a meeting last week and we have an external business coach that comes in and works with myself and the team once a month. We just sat and deconstructed the last six months, and the last six weeks, and it was actually like wow, we have had an insanely good six weeks. But your mind automatically flips to say, we haven't done this, we haven't ... hang on a minute. But we've done all ... oh my god, actually. I think do you know what? We're in a good spot, of course these more to do. There's loads to do. Of course there is but actually, you've got to enjoy this journey and take the time-
Simon:
This is where I struggle. I think it's the combination of my mental health experiences combined with my industry focus on performance and and outcome marketing. I'm obsessed with outcomes and I'm, not a perfectionist but I'm obsessed with doing everything ... I'm quite hard on myself, I'll be honest. That's been my downfall many times. I believe that we're so focused on outputs and it's always about so what, what's the result? What are you doing for me? You get clients go, if I pay you that, how many leads ... you know the drill, right?
Richard:
Yeah.
Simon:
We are in a world obsessed with outcomes and that's great, but what we seldom do is actually celebrate and appreciate the inputs. People talk about journaling where you can look at all the things you've done. I think like you say, when your business coach comes in and you have a meeting with these people, you look at it and you see actually ... for example, my February was tricky. A couple of things I thought were going to win didn't come in, whatever, and it's hard to sometimes reconcile that. But then when you look at the outputs, I look at the work I did on some of my marketing and blogs and podcasts and output for clients. I actually think you know what? Actually, it was a success but it's easy for us to not think it.
Richard:
Because the two out of 10 things maybe didn't quite pop.
Simon:
Yeah.
Richard:
But the eight things actually, yeah. I think if you step back as well, it's like you step back, that was a month of your life. It's not your life. It doesn't define ... it's a month or a week, or a month or six weeks.
Simon:
In traditional terms, business is about making more money than you spend. That's called profit and it's sanity. However, money isn't the be all and end all. I didn't do this for the money. I do this because I enjoy what I do. However, when you're running a business, you focus on the money end of it, the outcome. I need to be better at celebrating the stuff I have done, the client that I have won, the good work I have done, as opposed to thinking that's not coming in, that's not coming in-
Richard:
We didn't get that.
Simon:
There's a gap between pitching and winning. You know what it's like.
Richard:
Of course.
Simon:
It's frustrating, isn't it?
Richard:
Yeah.
Simon:
Why have they not come back to me? It happens. You just have to basically go easy on yourself. I'm just doing the best I can.
Richard:
I think eCommerce stores that are listening in, some great advice there. It's inevitable there's going to be challenges. You're going to be building your sites. You're going to be working on your marketing strategy, things are going to come along that are maybe going to knock you a bit, or things aren't going to get done. Something you're going to engage with maybe doesn't quite deliver how you expect it or you're just about to negotiate a new distribution deal with whoever, but you don't get it. You know what? Move on. I think those things are going to happen. Work it into your routines to take some time to appreciate the things that are going well, and I think spend some time working on yourself and be able to step back.
Simon:
Fortifying yourself and your business as well from disappointment, it's expecting it. The mantra of performance marketing and growth for business is test and learn, test and learn, test and learn. Try something. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. You have to embrace the fail part in order to move on from it or learn from it. I know it's a bit cliché. Everyone says about you learn failure. There's no such thing as failure, it's feedback, blah, blah, blah.
Simon:
But really, you've got to accept the disappointment because it's going to be inevitable. If there was a magic pill, there's always a top right, growing line graph in everyone's business, then none of us would be working, and everyday we'd all be retired on a yacht somewhere. But the reality is, it's not like that. There is asymmetry in the world and I think you just need to learn what works for you, what works for your business. If you're doing eCommerce, you might find that Google shopping ads are very profitable for you. If you're doing a low price point, you might find that it's a disaster because of the cost of feeds. The point is you've got to learn these things.
Simon:
I think that's where people often fall short because they beat themselves up. How come so and so is getting it to work and we can't? The circumstances are invariably different.
Richard:
Everyone's got their own stuff going on, haven't they?
Simon:
Yeah.
Richard:
Absolutely. Do you think there's anything else I should've asked you through this podcast, because I'm going to draw it to an end now. Is there anything else that we should touch on at all, do you think?
Simon:
That's a good question. I spoke to her about what sort of questions you might be firing at me. She did mention one, which is about what's your favourite book? I thought to myself, I can't answer that. I was thinking that's the one question-
Richard:
I was saving that for the end.
Simon:
Haha, sorry. I've just ruined your play.
Richard:
It's fine.
Simon:
It's the one question that I genuinely struggle with because I've read a lot-
Richard:
Have you always read? Has it always been a thing, from school days and uni and that type of thing?
Simon:
Yeah.
Richard:
As a student.
Simon:
I got the Jurassic Park novel by Michael Crichton and I remember reading it in my top bunk when I was 10 years old, and was like, I like this. This is great. Obviously reading about dinosaurs and reading about business now is slightly different but I'm not going to try and be the guy to compare them either. On a genuine note, I think I do read a lot of nonfiction. I spent some time in Cape Town about three years ago. I read Tim Ferriss, the Four Hour Work Week, and I decided then I was a new world remote working entrepreneur and that drove a certain behavior. I read a lot of things. I've been reading Mark McCormack, What They Don't Teach You at Harvard Business School, the Daily Stoic. I've read a lot of stoicism with Ryan Holiday.
Simon:
I've taken a lot of things from reading. I think a lot of the books that I read, I like to read the non academic stuff as well. I did a mini MBA. I've done my degree and whatnot, and I'm looking at more business specific courses but both running a business and marketing are generally things that you can learn whilst doing. I believe it's really erstwhile to listen to people who have done it, like through bootstrapping, through not having much. I really enjoy those stories about things that ... people, where the odds are against them. I know-
Richard:
Like biographies. Do you read biographies as well then?
Simon:
No. I struggle with them a little bit. They annoy me. I don't know. Obviously when I bring mine out, it'll be great. But generally, I like to read ... when I say biography, I've read biographies in a way that it's not about them, it's about their journey in business, for example. I quite like them. I'm reading this book now, Never Split the Difference, by Chris Voss. He was an FBI negotiator, and he talks about all the things in the world about negotiation and negotiation isn't about bartering and getting to the right price. Negotiation is about the setting up precedent, and things like emotional, rational thinking. There's thinking fast and slow. You look at Daniel Kahneman, Mark Manson, they've all talked about this.
Simon:
I love the idea that actually we all justify being the rational but actually the majority of negotiations, the majority of sayings, the majority of purchases are emotional. With emotional thinking commands emotional negotiating. So there's a mandate for more EQ, more empathy and I like that. A lot of the stuff I've been reading has been talking about this softer skills thing. In answer to the question, I've got absolutely no clear answer on this at all.
Richard:
So it's about eight books in about 90 seconds, but Chris Voss, Never Split the Difference is one that you're reading at the moment that you're quite into. Someone else has recommended that as well actually. So I think we'll go with that.
Simon:
That's a good one. There are a few books I liked. I read a mixture of business and personal development. So business would be, I've got the $100 Startup to read. Just finished Peter Thiel's Zero to One. That's a good book. Very utopian. There's another guy, Kevin something, and he wrote ... I'm not going to mention it because I can't remember it. But I like personal development books. I love the Stoic Philosophies by Ryan Holiday. I love the idea of understanding what's in and out of your control, and it helps fortify you against crap.
Richard:
It's not something I've looked at, to be fair.
Simon:
I listen to the podcast. I love it.
Richard:
Is that one of your routines in the morning? You listen to him in the morning on the way in?
Simon:
The reason I like ... yeah, on the train. The reason I like it is it bridges the two worlds of mental health, development and being entrepreneur and being a marketer. Ryan Holiday, he was a-
Richard:
This is, what's it called again?
Simon:
The Daily Stoic.
Richard:
The Daily Stoic.
Simon:
Three minute podcast in the morning. He wrote a book of the day, stoic, where there's a passage for 365 days a year, actually 366 this year. He talks about ... he was a former CMO of, I think American Outfitters or American Eagle or something. American Apparel, maybe. I don't know. Doesn't matter. He often talks about understanding things don't go your way and it's maximizing yourself and understanding what's in your control and out of your control, putting your best foot forward, speaking honestly and clearly, getting good night sleeps and all those actual life hacks. Even though stoicism is very much widely misunderstood, by the way, a 2000 year old philosophy, a lot of the principles of it can be applied to everyday. Like the one things morning, they were talking about things like be careful with your money and your praise, or treat insults as opportunities or praise and play it down. Trying to basically not be subservient to external factors and emotions.
Richard:
Reacting.
Simon:
My train this morning, it didn't go from Newark to Lincoln. It had to go Retford to Lincoln. I was thinking, I'm going to be late now. But actually instead, I just listened to my podcast, I thought how can I maximize this time? The non stoic will moan and kick off when the flight's delayed to the attendant. But the stoic will actually think, you know what? I've got 45 minute delay, why don't I read ... why don't I do some emails-
Richard:
Let's go buy some perfume from the ...
Simon:
Let's go have a lager.
Richard:
There's a lot of references there and a lot of books. Obviously podcasts. Thank you so much, Simon. It's been an absolute pleasure. For the guys that are listening in to the podcast and want to find out more about you, want to find out about Archmon, what's the best way to get in contact with you?
Simon:
Absolutely. Thanks. You can contact me at any time, simon@archmon.com. You can go on archmon.com, the website. It is under construction at the moment. I have an ambitious young web developer who's working at the moment. We're just exchanging PMGs on Slack which is fun. You can follow me, Simon83 on Twitter, LinkedIn-
Richard:
You've put a lot on Linkedin. Obviously you're quite often writing articles on different-
Simon:
I think that was ... the one thing I'd say is that if you do go on my Linkedin, there's one ... the thing I felt like I couldn't share six months ago was the name of the title and that was when I opened up about my mental health because I'd done it on Facebook and Instagram. I was thinking, can I share it on Linkedin? But actually you should be sharing on Linkedin. Linkedin has become this big place of everyone looks great and I'm this and I'm driving around ... they've accidentally got their Mercedes keys on the side of the laptop-
Richard:
With their watch on.
Simon:
Yeah, look at me, everyone, my Rolex. But actually, you know what? A lot of it is nonsense, and I think people prefer people to just be themselves and authentic.
Richard:
Absolutely.
Simon:
You know what? You can still be the success you want to be, I guess, if you'd just be honest.
Richard:
Great. Great finish. Fantastic. Thanks for coming on. Brilliant. Thank you.
Simon:
Cheers, Rich. Thank you very much.
Richard:
Thank you.