E101: Maggie Dunn

Richard Hill:
Hi, and welcome back after a nice little break. I'm Richard Hill, the host of eComOne. And welcome to 101st episode. In this episode, I speak with Maggie Dunn, product marketing manager at Yotpo. Maggie and I talk all things, loyalty programs, SMS, and incentives. In this episode, we talk connecting your offline and online business, using simple strategies. The best way to incentivize customers. Should every company run a loyalty program? Using data within your loyalty program. Reviews and loyalty. And Maggie's opinion on the future of loyalty programs. If you enjoy this episode, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this podcast. So you're always the first to know when a new episode is released. Now let's head over to this fantastic episode.

Richard Hill:
This episode is brought to you by eComOne, eCommerce marketing agency. eComOne works purely with eCommerce stores, scaling their Google shopping, SEO, Google search, and Facebook ads through a proven performance-driven approach. Go to eComOne.com/resources for a host of amazing resources to grow your paid and organic channels. How are you doing, Maggie?

Maggie Dunn:
Hi Richard. I'm doing well. Thanks. I'm so excited to be here today.

Richard Hill:
Thank you. And thank you for being on the show. We've got quite a time difference today. So thank you for coming on. I really appreciate your time. So let's get straight into it. So how did you end up being the product marketing manager at Yotpo?

Maggie Dunn:
Yeah. Great question. So after four years of being in the FinTech space, doing consulting for a financial services software, I decided I wanted to pivot into something more meaningful to me. I knew I had a desire for marketing, which is what I went to school for. So I began my journey at Yotpo three and a half years ago as a customer success manager for our loyalty solution, helping eCommerce brands build and scale customer-centric loyalty programs. So I did that for a couple of years, and I had a knack for working closely with product, providing valuable feedback from our customers to ensure we constantly were offering a best in class product with innovative features. And I think this cross-functional collaboration is what really led me to where I am today as a product marketing manager for our SMS product.

Richard Hill:
So you actually did study marketing then at university and you're sort of wet academically? Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
I did. Yeah. I know. It's very rare to do what you're doing, that you went to school for. But it worked out.

Richard Hill:
It's quite, isn't it? Quite often, obviously, most people go to university. And I shouldn't say most. But quite a lot of people obviously have no clue what they're going to do. Or they go off in a complete tangent which is quite normal at that age. I've got two teenage sons as I mentioned before. And yeah. One of them's at the age where he'll be thinking about university. But he has no clue what he wants to do. So, okay. So Yotpo then. So you've been there a little while. And obviously doing very much in your flow and in the passion of enjoying that role. But obviously eComOne where eCommerce stores, as you know, Yotpo's obviously working with a lot of eCommerce stores. And we've got that online, offline piece where obviously all of our stores very much our customers are eCommerce. But some of them have got stores as well. And how would you say businesses can connect their online and offline business? Is there certain things you would say about that?

Maggie Dunn:
Definitely. And I think it's connected technology that's at the forefront here. To be able to give a connected experience, you need to have your various channels and apps all connected. All speaking to one another so that you can really give your customers the most relevant experience, and maybe more importantly the most frictionless experience. So if we think about like a brick and mortar or a retail popup, you would want to ensure that you can make it easy for customers for talking about loyalty programs. You want them to be able to earn and redeem points in store.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
Really have that connected to their online account. You do this with something like Shopify POS, which makes it so seamless. But really having that online to offline connection in terms of loyalty is huge. Think of your engagement channels like SMS, for example. Being able to provide personalized experiences. I mean, here at Yotpo, we value the opportunities that you can create with cross product data. So if you think of loyalty in SMS, being able to trigger SMS messages throughout the loyalty journey when a customer levels up into a VIP tier, text them, let them know, congratulate them. Give them an idea of what their perks are going to be. So, yeah. I think just in general, having connected technology that speaks-

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
... to one another so that you can build on your strategy is going to be super important.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. I think that's brilliant. I think that's brilliant. Quite often, they're just so disconnected. Aren't they? And we talk about it a lot. We've had very specific episodes on it. But I think just how many merchants, and business owners, eCommerce stores that are listening to this episode right now are not doing SMS. Put your hand up. Have a little word with yourself. Slap yourself around the face because I imagine most of you I know that probably a good 50% are not... You talk about loyalty programs, incentives, maybe a bit more so. But SMS, I think... Well, both areas definitely. But SMS, I think it's a real gap in a lot of store owners' arsenal, especially those ones that are bricks and mortar. Offline, potentially got physical stores. I know we've got a lot of listeners that have got a lot of stores.

Richard Hill:
We know we've got one listener that's got 300 stores that's listened to every episode pretty much. So yeah. Connecting those two elements. So I know you work with a lot of different store owners. Yotpo does. And what would you say are some of the... Let me thinking about the digital channels to sell our products as eCommerce store owners. How can a store know which channels to choose to focus on? There's so much out there now. Isn't there? Obviously, you've got that traditional sort of SEO, PPC. You have Google ads. But even more so now obviously the marketplace is Instagram. You obviously you can buy from the feed pretty much with one click with different tech now. What would you say about that?

Maggie Dunn:
Yeah. You're absolutely right. There are so many different ways that brands can sell their products, which is a good thing. Right? Like having so many different opportunities. Especially just now that there are so many different types of products that exist today. And I think where a brand sells ultimately depends on maybe the stage of where the company is, the types of products that they're selling. I mean, brands that we work with have had a number of different approaches here. Some started out solely on Etsy or maybe Amazon. Right? And they reach a point where they need to scale. And so they open up a Shopify store. And it's also worth considering when you're thinking about the different places that you can sell, who's your audience? Where are they most active?

Maggie Dunn:
So think about like a fashion or a beauty brand that works. They work really well on social media, like Instagram, because you have influencers buying products. They're talking about your products, their stories. They're going live. Maybe if you don't have influencers, there's also Instagram to shop. Right? So think about your following and where your customers are going to be out outside of physical places where you can sell. I mean, think of, not to tie it back to SMS, but like a big upcoming one in the SMS space will be this nature of text to buy where a customer can simply respond a keyword buy, and place an order all via text. They don't have to enter that website. So we're really like expediting the path to purchase and helping customers execute as quickly as possible. Because we know that the mobile consumers in general just want things immediately.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. I think that's brilliant. That one tap and purchase that thing for that. It's usually the one tap to stop sending me texts quite often. But that one tap to buy the thing. Yeah. That's pretty powerful. Isn't it? So obviously at Yotpo, you've got a lot of... I'm not sure how you what you call it exactly. But obviously different options there. Whether that's review technology, whether that's loyalty programs, incentives, SMS. But so we'll jump into, I think, reviews for a second. I think obviously a lot of review platforms out there. I think it's a given. It's given if you're listening, and you're not collecting reviews. And there's obviously we can go really deep into that. But how can a company really ensure they're making the most out of their reviews, and getting the reviews in the first place, and maybe any specific tips around reviews?

Maggie Dunn:
Absolutely. So, with Yotpo brands can reward customers for leaving reviews to maximize that engagement and really drive repeat purchases. So I think providing some sort of incentive to encourage customers to leave a review-

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
... after they make a purchase. I would say the most common use case for incentivizing is either with a coupon code or if you're using loyalty, rewarding them with points.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
So not only can you reward customers with points for the written portion of the review. But you can go beyond that, and encourage even more points if they include a photo or a video as part of that review.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
I mean, UGC is so important for building that trust among your customers so that they can truly make the best buying decision possible. So to be able to just even offer even more of an incentive to include that photo or video is really important. But in general, it's all about that value exchange. Right? So, maybe you're not so discount heavy, and you still want to encourage those customers to leave reviews. You can get creative here. I mean some of our customers, they're really big on social media. So a great add on to your review request is to maybe give a special offer to get a chance to be featured on your Instagram. There's a brand that we work with, Princess Polly. They're a fashion forward Australian brand. They're awesome. But their demographic is primarily Gen Z. So Gen Z is big on Instagram. So as actually part of like a VIP tier perk and encouraging reviews, they give that opportunity to you do a monthly drawing. "Hey, you get a chance to be featured on our Instagram page." So really just providing value exchange overall can drive those reviews forward.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. A lot of tips there. I would say, pause, rewind, to the listeners. I think there's probably about eight takeaways there. I'm not going to try and attempt to reel them all back out. But I think obviously I think a real good takeaway from my agency background would also be... You're talking about that UGC, that user generator content. It's just the best thing ever when it comes to SEO, when it comes to that trust element. When you've got a customer saying, "Look. I've had an experience, and it was obviously ideally really, really good." And it's maybe on INSTA, it's a video, it's on YouTube, it's on Facebook.

Richard Hill:
Whether it's just probably a bit more old school. But a text written review, they still exist, obviously. And they're huge. But that content, if it is a text based review, if it's 100 words, it's unique content. It's fresh. It's on point. It'll have its own connotations based on that person's personality, and whatnot which is brilliant for SEO. Obviously video, those social media side to reviews now, which is not new. But I think it is quite new to quite a lot of people that are maybe got a review system that's maybe just text based. Which I think still quite a lot of providers are, or some are. So I think that's brilliant.

Richard Hill:
So jumping back to SMS then, I think if I'm getting a text from a brand, sometimes it's a bit much I think sometimes. I think why. I've got certain brands. I'm always wearing a Gantt shirt. It's the brand I wear for work. And every now and then, they send me a text because I'm on their VIP equivalent, which is great. But sometimes I think flick an egg. You know what? They texting me. So it's that fine line. But I think sometimes with some brands with SMS. What do you think when I'm sort of saying maybe some brands, and they can be a little bit invasive on the SMS? I think a text more of when I'm getting a text, it's usually my mate. Although that's more WhatsApp to be fair. But I don't know. I'm sure by age now, or. But yeah. Do you think SMS is a little bit invasive? Or what would you say?

Maggie Dunn:
You can obviously see me smiling. I don't know if I... But I'm smiling because I think it's a common myth that SMS marketing is invasive or is spammy. And I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that there are some SMS providers out there that encourage you to send those batch and blast texts to all your customers at this high frequency. When rather you should be as a brand taking a truly thoughtful approach to SMS marketing. So first things first, just know SMS is an opt-in channel. That means customers who opt in want to hear from you. So yes. SMS is a more intimate channel, especially compared to something like email.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
That's why you need to treat the two channels differently. And because SMS is so personal, you need to make sure you're doing things like making sure the conversation is personal. And you can do so by starting out with just addressing a customer by the first name. It sounds rudimentary. But it's true. Make sure you're doing things to make the message as personalized as possible. You could do this with segmentation. So that your message, it's getting sent to the right customer. For example, are you trying to win customers back? Don't just reach out to everyone on your list because you could easily be targeting someone that made a purchase today or yesterday.

Maggie Dunn:
And, but rather be smart about that segment, like anyone who hasn't purchased in 60 or 90 days. Right? Or if we're talking about a loyalty program, if you want to do that VIP exclusive sale, that's great. And that's what you should do, but make sure you're segmenting to those VIP customers. Include that VIP first name to your name, and I think you're good to go. And in terms of the frequency, just I think the sweet spot here for success, what we see, is four to six messages per month per customer.

Richard Hill:
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You see that working. Obviously, you've got the data to back it up. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't see that many... I don't get that many texts to be fair. Probably. I'm trying to think. Phone company, they're pretty on it. And they've been on it for a long while. But you'd expect them to be on it. They are a telecoms company. A couple of them probably big, big, big brands. But I think there's definitely a space there or a gap there with a lot of, I think our listeners. Like I say, I think I challenge our listeners. How many of you are actually doing SMS? And I think the number will be quite low. So I think that's something that you should be looking at. Okay. So let's jump into loyalty. So loyalty programs. So I think you talk and Yotpo talk about emotional loyalty. So, why is that so important for companies, that emotional loyalty? And why should companies use it?

Maggie Dunn:
Absolutely. So I really like this one. I mean, emotional loyalty, it's about creating experiences that are essentially meaningful to customers. Right? So experiences where a customer feels appreciated. They feel valued, motivated. And these emotions that are created will ultimately drive purchase behavior. So emotions drive behavior. And what does it actually mean to have emotional loyalty? It really goes beyond just handing out a standard discount, or giving points for purchases. Really in order to create emotions, brands need to be focusing on developing deeper connections with their customers through personalization and journey creation. I mean, in this pandemic state customers are more emotionally invested in their favorite brands now more than they've ever been in the past. So this shopper to brand relationship goes beyond just a transactional exchange. So really in order for brands to stand out from the competition, they need to turn to building emotional loyalty to win their customers over again and again.

Richard Hill:
So more important than ever then. More important than ever. Then I think you quite often see these stock responses to things, and stock emails that maybe from the plugin that they've bought potentially. Even no personalization. No brand. No sort of the right tone of voice, the way they're talking to their customers. It's quite often gets missed. Isn't it? Can be quite a bland interaction, which why are you going to continue to buy from that company if it's just a little bit boring? So, yeah. Okay. I mean, do you think that all eCommerce stores should run a loyalty program? Or is there some exceptions to that?

Maggie Dunn:
So the fact of the matter is eCommerce competition is fierce. Everyone is fighting for the same customer. They're fighting for their customer's attention. So if you're a brand out there really trying to stand out from your competition, absolutely look into investing in a loyalty program. I mean, just look at who your customers are. Where are they? They're shopping on mobile. Right? 79% of consumers shop on mobile today, and you need to meet them where they are. You need to meet their expectations. They want things that are relevant, personalized, memorable. And loyalty can really answer to those customers' needs.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
But I think you need to be smart about it too. Right? Like not every loyalty program is the same. Start out with just a framework. Define what you think is successful for driving loyalty. Is it increasing customer lifetime value?

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
Is it driving new customers with the referral program? I think a great way, if you don't know where to start, is just survey your customers. Right? Send everyone on your list. You kind of a quiz, a survey, get to understand what they would benefit from in your loyalty program. I actually saw a brand the other day, one that I follow. And they're trying to understand what type of perks are valuable to customers? Is it points? Or is it maybe-

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
... expediential services? Is it dollars off? Or is it free shipping? Right. So I think you can... There's definitely ways you can be smart about how and where to start.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
But yeah. I mean, this is such a great investment that can really just make you stand out.

Richard Hill:
So get it done, guys. Loyalty program. Another one.

Maggie Dunn:
Get it done.

Richard Hill:
So loyalty program, we're giving them points. We might giving them some sort of VIP concierge, depending on where you are in the world. Service access to maybe new stock before it gets listed. Discounts. What are the things maybe a little bit less heard of that a loyalty program could offer? Maybe give us a real... Some of the guys that are doing it are really doing well. What are some of the things that they're offering? Let's forget discounts for a minute. Everyone knocks $5 off. Don't they? $10 off. What else can you incentivize your customers with in terms of perks?

Maggie Dunn:
Yeah. Definitely. So I think you're alluding to like the spend based campaigns. You get a point for every dollar you spend. That's a very common one in a program. But beyond that, there's non-spend campaigns too. Right? So points for certain actions that a customer's taking. If you again have an SMS channel, you could be rewarding customers' points for opting into SMS, which is such a great one for retention because now you're opening up another channel to be engaging with your loyalty customers on. And we see 76% of customers that are loyal will opt into SMS. So, that's a huge one. I think when you start tying perks to specific VIP tiers. So let's say you have like a silver, gold, platinum tier set up. Once you get to the gold tier, you get free shipping. Right? That's a great perk. But maybe when you get to the platinum tier, you get an expedited, two free day shipping.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
So, that's like motivating customers-

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
... who want to spend, and to want to level up, and get these exclusive experiences.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
And I think lastly, another one I'll just mention is those experiences that aren't like... They're unique. So maybe you're a protein company, and you have all of these different protein flavors. But you're coming out with new ones. Maybe you target your top tier and say, "Hey, do you want to test out some flavors we're working on? Like you're a VIP customer. We're treating you in such a way."

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
Giving them that exclusive experience, I think, can really make you stand out.

Richard Hill:
It's a bit like when the bank reaches out to you and say, "Hey, do you want a black card?" That type of thing's like, yes, I've made it in life. Not really. But you only got to give them about $150,000 a year sort of thing. And you get a little black card at this point. So apparently. So these tiers, I like that. Yeah. I like that. You're stepping through the tiers. So then your loyalty is to obviously to push more transactions through because the benefits increase as the spend or the tier increases. And then it opens and unlocks experiences, whether that's tasting, whether that's access to, if it's a VIP physical event, maybe an invite. Yeah. That's really smart. I love that. Yeah. That's brilliant. So loyalty programs and reviews. I think obviously they work pretty well hand in hand. But how would you say a company can use their loyalty program to increase their reviews, and to get more reviews?

Maggie Dunn:
Absolutely. So I think it kind of goes back to what we were saying about this value exchange to customers. They should know what they get in return for certain actions. So brands can incentivize brand advocates with points to write a review after they received a product.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
Even more points for that photo or video. Tying in SMS there, if you're using all the products.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
Brands can maximize their review conversion rates by not just sending out an email request. But also an SMS request.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
This one is something we always suggest because the data's there. SMS review requests have a 66% higher chance of conversion than email requests.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
And what easier way to leave a review than on the device that holds all your pictures, all your videos?

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
So that you can upload as part of that review. But then going beyond just the actual written portion, customers that leave a review can do so much with that data. So you could create a segment of customers who are in a VIP tier. They left a positive review. And they've never made a referral before. You could encourage those customers to refer their friends. They're a valuable customer. They're in a VIP tier. You know they're happy with your product. What better way to send them a targeted campaign to encourage them to drive more referrals?

Richard Hill:
Yeah. Love it. I love it, Maggie. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. So many little gems there. I think that's another rewind minute there because obviously quite often I think. I hate to say it. People are lazy, and merchants are lazy as well. They install their plugin, whatever it may be. And they don't enable the SMS. Or they don't have the SMS function. They don't follow up, and follow up, and follow up, and follow up. But then tying in, I love that idea of different types of reviews are different points towards within the loyalty program. So obviously, it might be 10 points for a text based review, or 1,000 points for a video review. And you can just... Or an image review is 500. Well obviously on your phone, you've got the image. You're able to take a video very, very quickly.

Richard Hill:
So which one are you going to do if you are that way inclined? And you don't mind sharing, which obviously some people don't want to do that. Fair enough. But to be able to then get 1,000 points, which is maybe half a... I don't know. Half a pair of socks, or whatever it is. I don't know. Depending on what you're buying. Yeah. That's a great incentive. Isn't it? You do a video review. Maybe get $5 off, $10 off. Something, or a certain price ban so you're encouraging them to spend a bit more maybe. Which also means that they're going to move up a tier in their loyalty program. So it all connects. Doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
Yeah. You can get really creative too. Like maybe the video, there's certain use cases. Right? Like a video of the actual product and you talking about it. But maybe it's about the unboxing experience. Maybe you have really cool packaging that you want to show off.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
You can encourage for those types of reviews.

Richard Hill:
Brilliant. So obviously, like I said, a lot of our listeners have a lot of physical stores. We talk about stores and that omnichannel piece quite a lot. Are you aware of businesses that are doing the omnichannel piece well? So maybe some insights into what they're doing. And any takeaways and things that our listeners could go away with have and have a think about with their omnichannel experience?

Maggie Dunn:
Yeah. Absolutely. The one that really comes to mind, Credo Beauty. They're a major, clean beauty brand. So with their online loyalty program, one of the ways you can earn points that they're advertising is that you can recycle products in store. So they're encouraging you to come in store-

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
... bring in full products, recycle them, and then you get points on top of that. I think that's just the show is number one. They're a sustainable company. They care about recycling. This is something that their customers also care about. And then, another thing they do is with their top VIP tier, they're giving those customers exclusive special event access. So again, encouraging customers to visit the stores, motivating them to level up to get these experiences. Just a great way to foster for loyalty. And then for their redemption of points, they offer product redemption. So a lot of brands typically do the classic, like redeem $10 for 100 points. Or just some sort of dollar off. Credo's using product redemption. So what's unique about them is that, and I think a lot of people on this call listening, if you think of Sephora, it's a very similar experience.

Maggie Dunn:
They offer products that you can redeem with points. But they're keeping this so active in driving engagement here because I think it's like every month or so, they're swapping out new products. So that it's a great way is to be on SMS or email like, "Hey guys. As part of our loyalty program, we have a brand new collection of products that you can redeem for these different point thresholds." So I think it's a really smart and strategic way to drive that brand loyalty forward.

Richard Hill:
That sounds it. I'll have to check those out myself. That sounds great. So, okay. Let's say you're back on the show in 18 months time. And we're talking about what's been going on in loyalty specifically. What is the future of loyalty in the next 18 months? What are we going to see coming through?

Maggie Dunn:
That's a tough one because there could be so many things. But what I would like to see and what I think will be happening is that brands will be doubling down on being authentic, and really just showing commitment to sustainability.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
Consumers today, they're demanding that brands do more to make a positive impact. They're doing their research. They're trying to educate themselves on what a brand is doing. Are they supporting purpose driven missions? Are they moving in that direction? And lucky for brands who use Yotpo, you can reward customers for that educational content. So you can give points as part of your loyalty program for reading blog posts about a brand's mission. So it's a great way to again, push your brand mission forward through that loyalty program. You could give points for watching a video. We also have a powerful integration with ShoppingGives. They're on Shopify. They, as part of the integration, you can offer customers points for certain purchases with donations. You could even allow customers to redeem points for donations. So there's a lot that you can do to really talk about your mission statement through loyalty. And I think it's just a great way to encourage customers, engage them, make them educated about the fact that you are so forward with sustainability. And there's so much value in that.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. I like that a lot. So building sustainability element into your loyalty. Obviously an authentic and genuine one. But one and that's win, win for everybody. That's brilliant. I love that. I was thinking about my own business. I don't even have a store. But I thinking how can we do that in our business? It is something I'm very... I'm a bit late to this, and I'm very conscious of just that waste that's out there. Especially in yeah, yeah. Something that's on my mind a lot. I'm going to do a few episodes on it coming up. So thanks for being on the show. It has gone super, super quick. I do like to end every episode with a book recommendation. Do you have a book that you'd recommend to our listeners?

Maggie Dunn:
So the one that comes to mind, I'm still reading. But I think it's really... I can't put it down type of thing. It's called Atomic Habits. Have you read it?

Richard Hill:
I haven't read it. But I know a lot of people that have read it, and they tell me about it. And I've read various books on habit building, and habit stacking, and things like that. I think it's similar. Isn't it? Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
Yeah. Yeah. It definitely just goes through those types of practical strategies that really teach you how to form those good habits. The one that I really like is getting rewarded immediately. So like if I tell myself, "Okay. I'm going to spend this one hour on this project. I'm going to do nothing else. Not even look at my phone." And then after that hour's up, I'm going to reward myself with five minutes of, I don't know, social media, for example.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. Yeah.

Maggie Dunn:
That's one that's already starting to really work with me and helpful during these pandemic times.. Yeah. Atomic Habits.

Richard Hill:
Helpful when you're working from home and the fridge door is like five steps away. Or is it just me maybe? I don't know. Well, thank you for being on the show, Maggie. For those that want to reach out to you, find out more about yourself, more about Yotpo, what's the best way to do that?

Maggie Dunn:
Absolutely. Feel free to reach out to me. And my email is mdunn @yotpo.com. You can also find me on LinkedIn, Maggie Dunn. And looking forward to it.

Richard Hill:
Thank you. Well, thanks for being on this show. I think we will catch up again in 18 months time, and we'll see how things are going. I'll see you again soon.

Maggie Dunn:
Thanks Richard.

Richard Hill:
Thank you for listening to the eComOne eCommerce podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please hit subscribe, and don't forget to sign up to our eCommerce newsletter. And leave us a review on iTunes. This podcast has been brought to you by our team here at eComOne, the eCommerce marketing agency.