E24: Jason Thickpenny

Richard Hill:
Welcome to another episode of eCom@One, and today's guest is Jason Thickpenny. Now, Jason is the MD of Rocket Railways and Escape Grantham. I've known him for about two or three years. What he might not know is I've seen him speak a few times at different events and thought, "This is one sharp guy." He worked for another company at the time, which I'm sure we might touch on through the podcast. He's gone on since then since when I first saw him speak, to speak at many events. We actually shared a stage not too long ago, about eight months ago, at an eCommerce event. I've been trying to get him on the podcast. Thank you, Jason. Jason has agreed to be on the podcast. How are you doing, Jason?
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah, good. Thanks for the intro. You're right, I did not know that. I did not know that you'd been watching me at all this. Was it really only eight months ago that we were speaking in Lincoln, was it?
Richard Hill:
Yeah, I say eight months. I think it was November, wasn't it? Last year, so it's about nine months, I think. November time.
Jason Thickpenny:
It just seems like a different lifetime ago now, Richard-
Richard Hill:
In COVID months, it's about 10 years.
Jason Thickpenny:
I was going to say-
Richard Hill:
Like cat years is COVID years, or COVID months.
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah. I feel like we've probably lost like five years through the whole thing. Yeah, that's a good that was. I really enjoyed that. I've got a lot out of that evening, actually. Those eCom events are actually really, really good. Not just from a socializing point of view but from a point of view of they've got some terrific speakers there. Do you remember the guys from the carpets? I can't remember.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, they're guys in. Aren't they? I can't remember their names myself actually. Yeah, he was fantastic. Wasn't he?
Jason Thickpenny:
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, and learning all of that sort of stuff is fantastic. I know a lot of people go for the socializing thing but any opportunity you've got to go to one of these events and listen to those stories and stuff, make the most of it. They're really, really good.
Richard Hill:
I mean, that's how we met, you know? For the guys that are listening in, we talked about events quite a lot on different podcasts but a lot of... There's a lot of eCommerce events out there. Me and Jason initially met I think at eCommerce Expert maybe two years ago. Somewhere in there. I know you've done a lot of V-blogging over the years for the different brands you've represented. You've got on our radar here at eComOne. Obviously we've done a lot of work with the previous company you were working with. Then we shared the stage and whatnot. Obviously we met basically two years ago is what I'm driving at, at an event. Get out at these events, guys. Okay, so let's get into it. I think it would be good to get straight in and tell us about how Rocket Railways got started.
Jason Thickpenny:
Well, I've always been a lover of the steam train. I know I probably don't come across as the typical kind of steam train enthusiast if you like but I guess the thing is some kids love fast cars, some teenagers like fast cars. I like fast trains. It's kind of the same thing. I guess ever since my parents put on an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine, I kind of fell in love with the whole steam train thing. Then I guess it's one of these hobbies that for the un-cool kids, it dies out when they discover girls. For me, I kept the hobby up. Then I never did anything with the hobby if you like. I never saw myself as someone that was going to do this kind of thing for a living.
Jason Thickpenny:
As we've spoken about in the intro, I worked for a company that does NARP system. They've got a cloud version of their NARP system. They said, "Look, we want you to," Mike, the owner of the company. He just said, "Look, I'd like you to head up a team and I'd like you to try and sell our cloud version." NARP system just for the benefit if anyone doesn't know it's stock management system. It allows you to set up multiple channels and stops you from overselling. I feel like I'm going into pitch mode.
Richard Hill:
You're slipping back to it.
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah, yeah. It's still there, you see. The thing is I really wanted to get under the skin of this NARP system and really expand it from a business owners point of view. I thought, "Okay. Well, what I'll do then is I'll set up an Ebay channel and a website and I'll sell a couple of things just to see how we get on." The only thing I could seem to sell was some of my model railway bits. I had quite a lot of stuff that I had been sitting on for ages. I had a layout but I didn't... It was mine now and I didn't sell any of it. I just put a few bits online.
Jason Thickpenny:
Most people bought them and it was just like, "I didn't expect so much interest. Then people were messaging me going, "Have you got any more? Have you got one of these? Have you got one of these?" I'm like, "I haven't but maybe if I did, then perhaps this could turn into a little side business that could make me a bit of money on the weekends.” That's how I thought it was going to stay. Then it just over the past year or so, it just has gone mad. I think because of the amount of people that are buying online now, and I also think that people underestimate perhaps some of the older generation, they know how to work Google. They know how to work Ebay. They know how to work Amazon.
Jason Thickpenny:
Unfortunately, what was happening is a lot of the model shops were closing because people just don't like going to the shops anymore. It is a niche market. What it was was a case was, all right, we'll just get this thing bigger and bigger and bigger. The point where it's like, well, now I've got a choice to make. Either dedicate my career in the eCommerce world or what I can do is take the knowledge that I've got from the eCommerce world and apply it to my own business. I rolled the dice and not long after the expo that we were talking about in Lincoln, it was not long after then where I said to the owner, "I want to make a go of this." Then here we are now. That's kind of the bit of a brief, if you'd like.
Richard Hill:
Quite a whirlwind thing. Obviously knowing how big you are now, which we know in such civilized thing that literally 10 months ago we sat at an event and you were wearing a different shirt that night sort of thing. Now pretty much you've obviously moved on from that role, set up. You've already set up in the background testing, sort of literally roll the dice as you put it back then, like I think a lot of these things start. Yeah, just so we can sell a couple of these things a week, that would be quite nice. Then, hang on a minute. It's like an hour later, we've sold inboxes filling up and more and more inquiries. Then you start to think, "Well, how? What..." I think that's great. Obviously, I think a lot of it is getting started. Isn't it?
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah, of course.
Richard Hill:
It's usually that blocker. People get comfortable in their role and maybe don't start. You obviously took the plunge and made the start. Then not really look back 10 months later. I was looking at your LinkedIn. It's literally 10 months ago.
Jason Thickpenny:
It's mad to think that, absolutely mad to think that. Yeah, that's how we came to be and I'm surprised just how quickly we've managed to grow. We've obviously hit on a market. I guess the thing is, as well, is that although we're not in a space that's crowded, there's a lot of people that are doing this kind of thing now. Obviously for the past two years, we've got a really good reputation in the industry now. That's been the key obviously, one of the key strengths with regards to our business model.
Richard Hill:
Obviously you come from this eCommerce background in terms of us even working with a lot of eCommerce businesses with your previous company. What would you say how has that helped you? What experience did you bring from that? Obviously you're aware of NARP. You're very much aware of eCommerce. What other things did it give you that you brought into the business?
Jason Thickpenny:
I mean, obviously it's helped me from an eComm point of view but also it helped me from a business point of view as well because every day I was talking to business owners and understanding their challenges. You know, really getting under the skin of their business and working out what their challenges were. I guess the thing is what it did it kind of gave me a head start with regards to my business. I was already ready for the challenges because I already kind of knew what was going to happen with them. That allowed me, I think. I think that's been the key to how we've outgrown quicker than maybe others. I already know some of these challenges that are coming. Therefore, I was able to put all of those things in place, those solutions in place kind of before the challenges started, if you'd like.
Richard Hill:
Maybe give us a couple of examples. Obviously in these 10 months you've had a couple of probably key growth areas and key things you've had to put in place. What sort of things, guys that are listening in that maybe a year, three years in, obviously you've expedited things. That year, three years, the guys that listen to this podcast, what sort of things they need to be thinking about and what sort of things they can do to speed up that process.
Jason Thickpenny:
I think for me, Richard, the first thing I would say is that I saw a lot of business owners that were running around like lunatics every day. The reason was because they just refused to employ people. I think the thing is, and I think this is the case with a lot of business owners and I think I was guilty of it at the start as well where you become a control freak over your whole business. It's your baby. I completely understand why. You've got to get good people in really quickly. The first thing I would say is employ people before you can afford them. Be prepared that you're going to probably pay an employee more than what you're going to take out of the business. If you need to go and do some night shifts somewhere to be able to keep the bills coming in, then you're going to need to make that sacrifice.
Jason Thickpenny:
Unfortunately, I think what a lot of business owners do is that they end up doing every part of the business. Now, for me Richard, the key thing is that I want to myself from every single aspect of the business. Don't wrap parcels. I realized that really quickly that, yeah, I'm spending so much time on wrapping parcels every day because we've got 100 orders. Then I just thought, "Well, what am I doing? Why wouldn't I just pay somebody else to do it?" Then I can focus on the marketing, I can focus on installing new processes, installing new systems," which I already knew in my head that I wanted. That's the key.
Jason Thickpenny:
The first thing I would say is if you're three years in and you still haven't employed anybody, then you need to change that really, really quickly. Get employees really, really quickly and get good people in quickly. With all the schemes that the government has got going on in the moment, it's never been a better time to start employing people. That's the first thing I would say. Then the second thing is is the backward plan the whole business. Work out what your ethos and where you want to sit in the market.
Jason Thickpenny:
There's loads of people that are doing railway parts and that kind of thing. We decided right from the start we want to be the best for used model railways. Although we have accounts with some of the big players in the market, we don't buy new stuff anymore. That market is quite crowded. That's the other thing I would say too to the business owners as well that are looking at doing this that pick what space you want to sit in, and then own it. As opposed to trying to be all things to all men.
Richard Hill:
I would imagine a lot more margins in that side of the business.
Jason Thickpenny:
Of course, yeah. There is more margin in it. Then supplies don't come. I mean, we had a guy and I hope he's listening actually. He won't be but if he is-
Richard Hill:
I'll tag him.
Jason Thickpenny:
We have this guy from PIKO that came and were a big model railway thing. They make little parts and stuff. He was just a He came in to the shop and instantly said, "Well, if you want to sell our products. You've got to put them on that rack. You have to sell them at this price." I was just like, "No." You're a supplier, you just want to get your products out there to the traders and sell. Then it was at that point that it was just like, "No, we don't want to deal with any of this. We will have ultimate say on what products we sell, how much we sell them for. Nobody else is going to have any input." Yes, it is harder because we obviously use iPhones. You have to take photos of everything. It's harder to buy them. You have to compete a bit more, you have to look a bit harder for them. You have to work a bit harder to find them. You get the reward with it, as well. It does mean that we can own that space now.
Richard Hill:
It's a lot les crowded, isn't it, in that market I'm guessing. People are not doing, not as many people anyway, near to go to those lengths to sort the product, photograph the product, inspect the product, check the product, test the product. It's very laborious. In return, as you put in, over a barrel with the 5% margins or whatever it may be.
Jason Thickpenny:
It's terrible. There was a new... There were interest for 90% of your listeners, but for the 10% that love their model railways, there's a big company over in Sheffield. They just had a memo that's been sent out today that they're not selling any Holden products anymore. There's obviously been something that has happened over there, as well. I think what's happening is that Holden or obviously the company that everyone's heard of are now selling directly to the end user and cutting out the shops. I understand why they've made this call because obviously COVID has kicked in. No one's going to the shops anymore. Holden has gone, "How are we going to get our products out? How about we sell them to the end user and they can buy them off my website?" Then done that accordingly. I kind of understand why Holden has gone down this direction and I'm glad that we don't actually have anything to do with them anyway. It's kind of worked in our favor.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, brilliant. Okay. Reverse engineering, that three year plan. With the end in mind, or the end of clarify on where you want to be, then hiring before you can really afford it is what you're saying. If you're sitting there packing 100 boxes, then that is an amount of, as I say, a 10 pound an hour task where implementing an NARP or investing in some marketing strategy and XYZ is maybe 500 an hour task, which one should you be doing? It's making those moves as quick as possible. It probably is quite a scary move, isn't it? I think that takes a certain personality potentially.
Jason Thickpenny:
You're absolutely right. I think you've got to be able to let go and you've got to pass trust to other people in the business. I've probably come in to Rocket Railways maybe once a week now. The rest of the time, I'm focused on doing the sales and marketing and I'm focused on trying to source, obviously, other products. Our operations manager Paul who was the guy who I sourced for packing the parcels in the first place, he's now become operations manager. He got promoted really quickly. I trust him with the keys to the business. If you can find somebody like that, you can be proactive in growing the business, then you'll do well. If you just stick with you, it's going to be difficult.
Richard Hill:
They're along for the journey, as well, and get the benefit of the growth and the opportunities, the financials. Came in to pack boxes and now he's operations manager. I know obviously you've got a big growth plan in place. You've got a lot of recruitment imminent. For the guys that are listening in that maybe just about to start, what advice would you give to them to someone who's just about to start their eCommerce store?
Jason Thickpenny:
From an eCommerce view, there's a few things I would say which is, and I'm aware of your business Richard so I want to be very strategic as to what I say and how I say it. I think you'll probably, I'm hoping that you're going to agree with me with this as well that when it comes to the eCommerce side of things, there are so many options, so many different platforms, so many different websites that you can decide on. You've got Magenta, you've got Shopify. You've got big commerce. You've got bespoke ones, you've got EKM. You've got all of these platforms.
Jason Thickpenny:
Now this is just my opinion, just my opinion, that we've recently gone to an eCommerce site. The reason we've gone to eCommerce is because there are lots and lots of options when it comes to your agency. For example, if we had a visual software website, for example, visual software is brilliant by the way. I can't speak more highly of them. They've got a great seat. The reason why we didn't choose visual soft is because if in six months time we don't like what it is that they've done, you can't just pick it up and give it to another agency. You have to stick with visual soft.
Jason Thickpenny:
Where at least with the likes of big commerce, there's lots of agencies that are doing it so you can just pick it up and give it to somebody else. What I would say is, and again this is just my view, pick one of those ones where you've got the options to be flexible with. We pick Word Press, like I say, because we could give it to other agencies. There's loads of plug ins for it as well. That's why I would say from an eCommerce point of view, keep your platform nice and flexible.
Jason Thickpenny:
What I would say is I think all of them have got strengths and weaknesses. You just got to pick which one you like the best and is best for your business, and then build everything else around it. Look for the one that's going to be best for your business as opposed to looking for the one that's cheapest or the one that's free or anything like that. Then build everything around that. Like say, we've got the eCommerce now and now we've got all these really cool plug ins that we can now put over the top of it. We've got subscriptions. We've got bulk editors, we've got all of these other stuff.
Richard Hill:
You've got a lot of control there and ownership where you're not buying in to a third party that only that team or whether there's a 10 man band or a 200 man band, it's yours. There's a system out there of developers or people that are reasonably priced. There's not a very, very, very specialist where you might be hundreds of pounds an hour like Word Press is. Sorry, eCommerce is Word Press. It's the most popular platform in the world. Lots of people on Word Press. Lots of very talented-
Jason Thickpenny:
I'm not saying that Word Press is the best. What I'm saying is Word Press was best for us. We are planning to do one piece of content a week. The Word Press blogs are really strong. It might be that somebody else might get better on with a Shopify. It just depends on your business model. Then when you've got it, just remember that you're going to get stuck with it. I think it's the one mistake that I think we made where we went from big commerce to EKM to WIKS. Now we're at blue commerce.
Richard Hill:
In a year.
Jason Thickpenny:
In a year, yeah. I just wish that what we would have done is just researched it a bit more beforehand and then we'd be probably, probably our website would be a year further down the line. Kind of a bit of a regret but you learn these things, don't you?
Richard Hill:
Yeah. You can't fall that speed. You can fall size in a year and got to where you are is insane in a good way. It's like push over, okay. Learn from that process. We need that, we need that. I think you quite often don't know till you're in that space, isn't it? Also, getting that advice from people who have maybe been there, done that, and are independent. They're not a Magenta, Deb, or Shopify. Maybe they're a bit of everything. That independent advice is going to help you out. We're on eCommerce. Obviously lots of options in there. Any other advice you'd give them away from the platform? They've built their site. Has been there any sort of takeaways in that getting started phase?
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah, obviously from a stock management side of things, that is really key. The thing is that we don't pigeon hole ourselves into standing over one particular marketplace. We're still big on Ebay and we'll continue to be big on Ebay. You want to be getting a system in that guides you, helps you, with your stock management. Let's say, and this is again why you need a good web platform that has got integration with an NARP or with a stock management system.
Jason Thickpenny:
Don't put all of your... Don't just sell out of one marketplace because as I've found out very quickly when we start selling on Amazon, we were doing really, really well on Amazon. Then all of a sudden one day like that, they just said, "You can't sell on here anymore." Now if we had put all the selling on there, that would have been a problem. It's been taken us like three weeks to get our account back with Amazon. It wasn't anything that we were doing wrong or anything like that. It's just everything is controlled by an algorithm. If everything's controlled by an algorithm, then you just get shut down. At least-
Richard Hill:
You have no control, in effect. You know? If that three weeks was around Christmas and you're doing less, it's not a goo three weeks. Is it?
Jason Thickpenny:
No, it's not.
Richard Hill:
Good takeaways there. For the guys that are listening, if you're relying on one channel, two channels, one or two of those channels, say Amazon for example or Ebay and there's a problem with your account of no fault of your own, it's a major, major problem. It's pretty obvious. I think a lot of people are just on Ebay still. Obviously you can go to that site but they're not investing in the wider marketing, obviously there's a lot of options. I don't need to go into them all. You know, to spread the risk I think is the takeaway there. Make sure that we've got orders coming in from other channels.
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Also then, and this is perhaps a mistake that I think I've made as well is that I was too heavy on the marketplace straightaway. What I wish I had done is built Rocket Railways as a site before expanding on to the marketplaces. We kind of did it the other way around. I kind of regret doing that now. You learn from these things. What I'd say is get your website sorted out first. Then have your channels built on to them. It's kind of extra things to sell your stuff as opposed to doing it the other way around.
Richard Hill:
That leads me on to my next question perfectly. You touched on, so you got stuff on all of these different marketplaces, whether that's Ebay, Google, Amazon, et cetera, et cetera. If you've got small stock quantities, you can easily sell out quite quick. Then you can have the challenges with your stock management. You obviously said about having an NARP system integrated. When somebody buys off one platform, the stock level is adjusted and it shows the correct, you know, just the stock basically. Obviously there's a lot more than that but that's a big part of it. Obviously you've got a physical store. If somebody walks in to your physical store and buys your particular products there and then and that happens to be the last one, which in a lot of cases it will be with your products because they are unique exactly as they are, et cetera. Obviously that stock goes down to zero. Then it will then, the NARP system will then take it off the website. Is that right?
Jason Thickpenny:
That's exactly right.
Richard Hill:
For guys that are listening in, that sounds quite obvious but quite often there is nothing worse than going to a website, placing an order, and then getting an email saying, "Sorry." It's not a good first experience.
Jason Thickpenny:
It's not. Also, if that happens on a marketplace, Amazon and Ebay penalizing you something chronic if you ever do that. They'll start... I mean, already their fees are astronomical but this just makes their fee even bigger if you happen to sell a product particularly on Amazon that you don't have. Amazon penalizes you something chronic, which is why your stock management has got to be really, really tight.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Same for paid ads if you're running Facebook, Google ads. You're paying for a click, ultimately, and you're taken to a page. Then processing an order that you can't fulfill, creating hours work if you don't mind doing manual. With the physical stores, I know you said you've got physical stores. Where do you see the industry going? Obviously there's a lot of different eComm businesses out there where there's a benefit to having a store or maybe not more so. What's your take on the physical store or eCommerce store?
Jason Thickpenny:
It's a really good question, Rich. Obviously it's been very difficult because when COVID hit, we were just like, "All right, what are we going to do now?" Obviously we had to close the shop. Even now, we still are limited to having one person in the store at a time. We love our customers dearly but, my God, can they talk. They want to talk about their layout because they're really-
Richard Hill:
I can imagine, I can imagine.
Jason Thickpenny:
We love that and that's great. The thing is is that what we try to do is... The problem is if one person comes in and they spend 20 minutes in there, you've got somebody else in there and wants to come in, as well. We've had to limit it to 15 minutes per person coming in. That is obviously, it's not isolated people because majority of people understand that this is the way of the world at the moment. I kind of think that obviously right now your eCommerce is going to be much stronger than your bricks and mortar store, which is why I'm really glad that we picked the premises for our store, which was out of the town center. It means we pay much cheaper rates. That is going to continue. We're always going to try to stay on the outskirts.
Jason Thickpenny:
What it means then as well is that people feel a bit more comfortable about coming here. Not only can they park their car for free, but also they haven't got to worry about going shoulder to shoulder in locks with the shoppers. That's been an advantage. I think if I'm honest with you, I think it all depends, to answer your question because I haven't answered it yet. I think to answer your question, I think it all depends on what your store is like. For me, the plan is with Rocket Railways, when somebody comes to my store, they will have an amazing experience. We are going to turn it into an experience place. It's not just going to be a place where someone will come in and they'll buy a product like they do at the moment.
Jason Thickpenny:
They'll be able to come in, they'll be able to have a membership to Grantham Model Railway club so they can come in. They'll be able to have a coffee, which they get. They can grab themselves a book out of the Rocket Railway library, they'll be able to play with our exhibition. They'll even be able to come in one day and be able to have a beer, which will be served on a G-gauge model train.
Richard Hill:
Hey, I love it. I love it, I love it.
Jason Thickpenny:
It's what's going to happen. The thing is that for me is the key thing that if somebody's going to go to a store, they need a reason to go. They want to have a really good experience when they come to it. For me, the store at the moment is, because of COVID, is almost like a glorified warehouse at the moment. It's filled to the brim with stuff. Then we have our dispatch area in the shop, which is not where I see it permanently but for now, it's kind of the way that it is. Once we come out of the whole social distancing thing, which we will do one day maybe, then we can start making plans for it. I think at that point, I think we will probably make as much money in our bricks and mortar store as we will online. For me, that's where I'd like to keep it. It's kind of doing the 50/50. That's where I see it for us, but it all depends on what your bricks and mortar stores look like.
Richard Hill:
It's having that obviously adapting, which is obvious. Having that experience, which you're very fortunate that you can do more so, I can imagine, than a lot of people because you've got that type of product where people are very passionate about. You can say that about a lot of industries. You had me there. I was like, "When is this opening? I'm coming over."
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah. We're actually building at the moment and I spoke to you obviously before you hit record but at the moment, we're actually building it at the moment. You mentioned at the start I own Escape Grantham as well, but what it is because of COVID and Escape Grantham being closed, what we have decided to do with it is to turn the Escape room into the warehouse for Rocket Railways. Then the warehouse that is currently for Rocket Railways, we're going to turn it into the exhibition center. We're tearing up at the moment. The wall behind me is the only space at the moment that isn't kind of being got holes being drilled into it and shelving and all this kind of thing. It's all about adapting.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Lots of things to think about there. We've talked about the different marketplaces and that's been a big part of your business. Is there any other takeaways there about the best marketing strategies that have worked for you? It's a very rapid growth 10 months in. You said Amazon has been really good to you and very good for you. There's some ups and downs with that, with the marketplaces. What would your take be on the channels that have worked best for you and maybe the things that you've found from that and the things that you're now going to do.
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah. Sorry, Richard, just to correct you. It's my fault for not being clear. Amazon has not been good for us.
Richard Hill:
Sorry, you did say that. It's Ebay that has been good for you.
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah, Ebay is really good for us. Amazon, we sold really well over, to be fair. Amazon would be a really good marketplace for us if their set of customer services was a bit better. The problem is that because we're quite unique in what it is that we're selling, we need a bit more help on the Amazon seller side of things. Obviously these products are secondhand, they don't have automatically AC numbers and all these kinds of things.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Thickpenny:
Ebay is obviously for second hand stuff, Ebay is always going to be good. Facebook Marketplace I would say is not necessarily good for us from the point of view of selling stuff. It's a good vehicle for driving traffic to the web site. Due to the generation that we sell to, I would say Facebook ads is without question the best for us. Facebook ads are really cheap at the moment for us, as well. That's definitely, definitely been a big thing for us. Believe it or not, Instagram has actually been really good for us, as well. We obviously have our own Instagram. I think the social media just in general has been really, really good from a marketing point of view.
Jason Thickpenny:
Then of course the other thing is direct mail. We use a database and sorry if I'm going to swear to you now but we use Hub Spot and Hub Spot, I've got to say, has been superb for us. Brilliant. Hub Spot, and again this is the key with regards to the tech that you're going to use behind the scenes we've got Hub Spot and then we use a product called Apple Bee which connects our Ebay to our Hub Spot. Then anytime that anybody orders off Ebay, it automatically all their information comes in to Hub Spot. Now of course it's all going to be complied before anyone starts teaching. Of course, all is complied but yeah, that's essentially what we use.
Jason Thickpenny:
Again, just going back to the advice that I would give to somebody that's looking to start an eCommerce, when you sell to a customer, make sure you're going to keep the details and that you follow up with them. Yeah, direct mail for us is obviously a big, big thing.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. I think the amount of people we've spoken to on the podcast and direct mail, it's coming back. A lot of people obviously abandoned it or online, online, online, online. We all get 200 emails a day, don't way? Email definitely works, as well. I'm not saying it doesn't work.
Jason Thickpenny:
There is that. Also, what it allows us to do, I'm going to do something. I know that people are going to be listening on Spotify so they won't be able to see this but we like to be able to give what we would call customer cuddles as well. What I mean by that is if we have... So we've got probably 10 customers that have ordered from us more than 30 times in the past year. What we do is once every quarter is we'll send them something for free. It doesn't have to be big but we'll send them something like this. For the benefit of anybody who's listening, this is just a very standard BR tender. It would cost us probably five, six quid, I would say. We would send them a free gift like that at the end of every quarter as a way of saying we really appreciate your business.
Jason Thickpenny:
I think that that is really, really important. Then, obviously, and especially with an industry like this, everyone talks. People will talk. That's the thing. People will, if you're into football then they'll talk to their football friends. If they're into model railways, they'll talk to their friends that are into model railways. If they say, "Rocket Railways sent us this. Isn't it cool?" Then that's just going to be a good thing for you. That's cost the company six quid. This is the key thing if you keep hold of their details. If you don't, you're not going to know who your biggest customers are. Yeah, that's a key one.
Richard Hill:
Again, such a wonderful experience. You talk about the experience coming in to the store and having an experience there. Just out of the blue, out of the blue every three months or so, they're getting this gift. Oh my God, how cool is that? You know? What a nice firm to work with or to buy from. You know? Like you say, a lot of these people talk. They're in a network of friends that are into that thing. "Oh, yeah. I bought this from these guys and they sent me this three months later." You know? Yeah, I love it. That retention strategy that a lot of people are so wrapped up in trying to win new business. Hang on a minute, if we could just look after the people that we've got already, you know, focus there. Last couple of questions, Jason, if you could look over the last 10 years, what would be a bit of advice you'd give yourself 10 years ago from something that you've learned or things that you've learned over the last 10 years? Deep.
Jason Thickpenny:
Oh my goodness. It's funny, Richard, because you put that in a message to me on LinkedIn prior to us going live. It's one of those that was probably the most struggle to answer because I think 10 years ago I probably wouldn't have listened to myself to be fair. That's probably a difficult thing. I think probably the first thing I would say is that roll the dice. I think that's probably the biggest thing I would say. You've got to be able to take a few risks. For me, this is something that I should have been doing 10 years ago. I think had I been doing it, it would have gone... We would be in a much stronger position.
Jason Thickpenny:
I think the thing is that I did surround myself with the right people. I didn't do enough in terms of self development. I didn't do enough in terms, like I said, taking the risks. These are the things really I should have been doing. It's only recently where, for instance, I've read Losing My Virginity by Richard Branson. Amazing book. If I had read that 10 years ago, I think I probably would have just waved bye bye to the corporate world and set up on my own. It was massively aspiring. This is stuff that I should have done 10 years ago.
Jason Thickpenny:
Yeah, surround yourself with people that are really going to support you and are going to help you. Be prepared to take the risk. Be prepared that it all could go horribly wrong. Be okay with living with those consequences. If I get rich, it might all go horribly wrong for me. I don't know. The thing is that if I don't do it, I'm never going to know.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, great. That is brilliant. That is brilliant. Now the final question we always ask. You almost answered it, you have answered it to a degree. We like to finish every episode with a book recommendation.
Jason Thickpenny:
Oh, okay. Right.
Richard Hill:
Obviously you mentioned Losing my Virginity by Richard Branson. Would that be the pick or have you got one that trumps that?
Jason Thickpenny:
You know, it's really difficult. I mean, the thing is is that business book from Richard Branson, it kind of more talks about his life experiences as opposed to giving business advice. Getting Customers by James Sinclair. That's probably, out of all the books I've read from the point of view of development, that probably is the one that's helped me the most. From a motivational point of view, there's a great book by a guy called Bard Burton called Get Off Your Arse. That's what it's called. He's a proper, proper Northerner. He's come from difficult background and has created the biggest networking company. It's a brilliant book. It's a brilliant book. Yeah, I would say from a point of view it depends on what you would like to read, to be fair. That's more of a self help book. Whereas Getting Customers by James Sinclair is brilliant from a point of view of giving you great business advice. Am I allowed to do two?
Richard Hill:
You can do two, that's fine. We'll let you off. I think you even snuck a third one before that, didn't you? Well thanks, Jason. There's been, I think, a lot of good takeaways there. Really looking forward to listening to this one back myself, to be honest, podcast, looking forward to getting it live on Monday for you and for us. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. For the guys that are listening in that want to find out more, want to find out more about Rocket Railway, more about yourself, what's the best place for them to connect with you and the brand?
Jason Thickpenny:
Yep. If you are into model railways, which is going to be probably only a very, very small number that's going to listen to the podcast, www.rocketrailways.co.uk. Also if you like a good escape room, I don't want to forget that. We've got nothing to do with eCommerce but perhaps I could just plug that quickly as well. If you enjoy the lights of Crystal Maze back in the '90s, this is a very similar kind of experience that you can go and do in Grantham. Www.escape-gantham.com. You'll be able to book one of our escape rooms. There's a new Egyptian one that's coming soon. There you go, a little plug.
Richard Hill:
We might be seeing you, our team will have to have a little trip over.
Jason Thickpenny:
Come on down then, it's great fun. It's great fun.
Richard Hill:
Great. We've got the Rocket Railways website and we've got the escape rooms and Grantham there. Brilliant. Obviously, can connect with you personally on LinkedIn as well.
Jason Thickpenny:
If you put in the name Jason Thickpenny, there is no way to hide on the internet with a name like mine.
Richard Hill:
Well, thank you so much for the interview and for the podcast. I look forward to catching up with you soon.
Jason Thickpenny:
Thank you, it’s been a pleasure, all right.
Richard Hill:
Thank you.