E188: Jack Good

Richard Hill [00:00:04]:
Hi there. I'm Richard Hill, the host of eCom@One, and welcome to episode 188. In this episode, I speak with Jack Good, founder of Reuseabox, keeping cardboard boxes in use for longer. Now I know most of you listening will have bought cardboard boxes to ship your customer's orders, and this episode will open your mind with the options available to you and should help to drive a positive sustainability shift in your business. In this episode, Jack covers why you should care about cardboard, quick changes businesses can make to be more sustainable. We chat about focusing on sustainability for the right reasons, and we go deep on the importance of b corps and what a great movement it actually is. And, of course, so much more in this episode. So if you enjoy this episode, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this podcast so you're always the first to know when a new episode is released now.

Richard Hill [00:00:52]:
Let's head over to this fantastic episode. Welcome to the show, Jack. How are you doing?

Jack Good [00:00:59]:
Good. Yes.

Richard Hill [00:01:00]:
Great stuff. Well, I think the first thing to do would be to ask you to introduce yourself to our listeners and how you got into the world of cardboard boxes.

Jack Good [00:01:07]:
K. So yes. So I'm Jack. I'm the accidental founder of ReusableBox. So about 12 years ago, we we noticed by accident that businesses throw away millions and millions of cardboard boxes every day. And we set up the 1st company that's designed to keep cardboard boxes in use for longer. So we collect used boxes, and we redistribute them. And we're doing that simply because it's better for the planet.

Jack Good [00:01:34]:
Mhmm.

Richard Hill [00:01:35]:
So I would imagine that every single listener, pretty much that's an extreme stat because Right. A 100% is probably pushing it. But 99% of the people that are listening to this podcast work in a business that buy cardboard boxes. So I would say we've got quite a quite an active audience here that will the cardboard boxes at least will resonate with with everybody. I remember the time when I had an eCom store for about 15 years.

Jack Good [00:02:01]:
Okay.

Richard Hill [00:02:02]:
And I remember the various, pallets of of packaging and boxes and and wrap that used to arrive back then. But I'm assuming things have changed, and the options now that are available to different businesses in terms of where they buy their cardboard from, the different types of cardboard It's probably changed somewhat in the last 15 years ago when I did it. But we'll we'll get into that. So, you know, why should our listeners and people in general care about cardboard?

Jack Good [00:02:28]:
Yeah. Well, I don't know about cardboard specifically because, you know, we use a box. Like I said, we're we're different to all the other companies. So we're the only company that's trying to educate businesses that we need to be keeping our cardboard boxes in use for longer. And I suppose there's a bit of a misconception around cardboard. You know, of the last sort of 10, 15 years, plastic's been, like, demonized, maybe for good reason. Right? But paper's been seen as as this kind of really eco friendly, sustainable packaging solution. And we're not here to bash the paper industry, you know, because the the truth is being alive is bad for the planet.

Jack Good [00:03:07]:
But people often forget that, paper or cardboard to make and to recycle has a huge environmental impact. There's a huge footprint. So, you know, know, you often forget you have to cut down trees to make paper Mhmm. For starters. And, yeah, in fact, you know, to put it into perspective, if you wanna guess, Richard, how many trees do you think we cut down last year to make cardboard boxes? 300,000,000,000. Good guess. I think I

Richard Hill [00:03:39]:
thought I read that stat, but that's probably not quite right.

Jack Good [00:03:41]:
Yeah. No. Well, it's 3,000,000,000 with a b. So last year, we cut down just over 3,000,000,000 trees to make single use boxes. And the reason that's an important

Richard Hill [00:03:49]:
1 year?

Jack Good [00:03:50]:
In 1 year. Yeah. And the reason that's an important stat is that despite talk of different technology to draw carbon out of the atmosphere, trees and, you know, nature is still really the most effective method we have. So if we're cutting down all these trees to make boxes that are used once before being thrown away, it's a bit counterproductive, shall we say? In fact, since humans have been around, you know, messing around with the planet, we've we've cut down more than 3 trillion trees with a t. So that's why it's an important, it's important for people to understand that it's not it's important to people understand that there is an impact to cardboard boxes, and there can be something better. Mhmm. And people often they're often surprised as well when we when we tell them that when you recycle paper, there's this idea that recycling is really good for the planet. And if we recycle our cardboard, we're doing our bit for the planet.

Jack Good [00:04:43]:
And, again, we're not saying recycling's bad. But, again, it has a huge impact. You know? You can only recycle the the fibers in paper about 6 to 7 times before they become too stretched, and you have to add in more virgin material, you know, from cutting down trees. And in fact, to manufacture 1 ton of recycled cardboard boxes, you actually have to, you actually have to produce around 1.1 tons of carbon emissions. You have to cut down around 3 trees, and you have to, generate around 16,000 kilowatt hours of energy. And our message at Reuse A Box is simply to reuse 1 ton of cardboard. You don't have to do any of that. Mhmm.

Jack Good [00:05:23]:
And that's as simple as. So if you ever wonder what happens to all the millions and millions of boxes that get unpacked every day, they get some recycled, a lot of them get wasted. And at reuse a box, we're simply saying they could be reused. And the reason that's probably why it's important, but the reason that people should listen, businesses, to people listening is because if you can reuse boxes, you can save money as well. Mhmm. You know? So if if you can if you can reuse a box that's already out there, like, if you reuse a box Yeah. We're gonna remove the manufacturing cost as as well as the damage, and that's about 50% typically. So,

Richard Hill [00:05:56]:
yeah. I mean, it all sorts of things trigger when I listened to you there. I think the you know, when, like, in lockdown, for example, I think, I think it's, you know, maybe a bit of a broad statement, but the the amount of things that a lot of people were buying because they're simply locked at home and, you know, they're all that out. And, you know, I remember very, very clearly, personally, you know, I go to my brown my my bin with all the paper in and the cardboard. I think, oh my god. It's only flipping Tuesday. The bin was the bin was emptied on Friday. This has been going back 4, 5 well, well, we're now 4 years 4 a bit years ago.

Richard Hill [00:06:30]:
And I came but when we came back to the office, I said to the town, I said, look. I said, I've had a look on Amazon, you know, and, obviously, other other websites I bought off, but I could you obviously can go to Amazon, and you can click and just look at a year and see how many orders you've had.

Jack Good [00:06:43]:
Yeah. It

Richard Hill [00:06:44]:
was staggering. It was something like a 198 orders, I think, 1 year we placed as a company. You know? So my company account has got my personal in there as well, you and then we split it out at the end of the year. But, ultimately, there's I think it was just shy of 200 orders. Well, thinking about the cardboard that is associated with that, and, obviously, some of these firms, especially Amazon, you order a, you know, a pair of glasses like that, and the box it comes in. It's like, what's this what's the delivery driver go? Yeah. The bin was never big enough. You know, we always had a stack, but which they invariably wouldn't pick up at the you know, on a Friday morning when they came and picked it up.

Richard Hill [00:07:18]:
When we came back to the office, you know, a few months later, I was like, right. We're not actually gonna order on a, you know, ad hoc basis. We're gonna order maximum once a once a week. And that's changed our ordering, you know, massively. And we can't just we have a in our business, we have it where you you can't just order something, like, on a daily basis. We won't Yeah. Allow it. You know, all the orders come through to somebody who has to authorize them, and they're all authorized on the same day of the week.

Richard Hill [00:07:43]:
There's maybe the odd, you know, exception. But just the amount of cardboard that I think a lot of businesses were or are using, you know, it's just a huge, huge amount, isn't it? So what are some things that maybe some firms could do around that to sort of make their companies more sustainable? Obviously, there's there's reusing boxes again, but what else could companies maybe do to

Jack Good [00:08:03]:
Yeah. Well, you know, I'll go I'll go on to that in a second, but it's interesting that you brought up around all the cardboard going into your bin. So, again, most, most people out there aren't really aware of the cardboard box industry because it's really boring. But your listeners perhaps are because you've got, you know, a lot of eCom businesses, a lot of fulfillment centers, and a lot of companies that are buying cardboard. So they'll probably remember over COVID, the price of cardboard exploded. So it went up, you know, 2, 300%. Lead times went from a few days for for new boxes to 6 months, literally. And the reason for that was everybody was at home like you buying all this crap online.

Richard Hill [00:08:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jack Good [00:08:45]:
And it was piling up in their bins. And a lot of people, they don't realize that a lot of your household waste in the UK doesn't actually get recycled. A lot of that will get incinerate well, incinerated in waste to energy, which might not be the worst thing to do. Again, we're not bashing it. But the point is it's not making its way back into the supply chain to be recycled into more boxes, And, and and reuse is a really simple way to do that. It's to lock that that material in the supply chain. But in terms of what businesses, what I what I would recommend businesses could do, you know, in terms of sustainability, I actually think I think sometimes a lot of companies will make a bit of mistake when they're thinking about what's a quick easy thing to do. You know, what's gonna have a big impact? I think often I think the most important thing to do is to is to look at your impact to start with.

Jack Good [00:09:36]:
So, like, step 1, measure your carbon footprint. You You know, look at look at where, look at where your biggest impact is. And then step 2, try try to reduce it. And I do actually think there's a really big misconception with businesses that when it comes to, like, environmental sustainability, this is this is a cost to your business. This is an expense. You know? And a lot of business, especially small business owners will sort of be like, oh. You know? Let's let's look at that next year kind of thing. But the truth is, this is what we've learned, is that often the most carbon heavy businesses are actually the most inefficient businesses.

Jack Good [00:10:14]:
And one of the best ways to make your business more sustainable is, you know, environmentally, is to make it a more efficient, more productive business with less waste. Mhmm. And that's basically what Reusable Box is. You know, we we're we're collecting used boxes from businesses, and we're keeping them in use for longer. If if we can do that, it's just more efficient as a society. And So

Richard Hill [00:10:33]:
do you do you find your well, maybe a different question. So just picture it. So, obviously, a box gets sent wherever it gets used, and, obviously, it's then getting making its way back to you via a third party that's collecting them? Or how does the how does the model work?

Jack Good [00:10:50]:
Yes. Well, we do a few things. But, basically, we target companies that are unpacking, thousands of boxes of the same size on a regular basis. So we target those companies all over the UK.

Richard Hill [00:11:02]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:11:03]:
And all we do is we collect them, and then we find someone else to reuse them. And they wouldn't just simply reuse them themselves? Well, most companies, you know, for example, we work with Yovali, so they buy yogurt pots into their factory. Yeah. You know? And every every day, they buy boxes of yogurt pots, and they empty the yogurt pot, fill up a yogurt.

Richard Hill [00:11:21]:
They they split them into smaller

Jack Good [00:11:23]:
Yeah. And the and the outer box that have the yogurt pots in, they don't need anymore. So most people, this is a waste. It's a byproduct. And that's kind of the problem is when people see used boxes that they generate in their businesses

Richard Hill [00:11:33]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:11:34]:
They see it as waste. But the word that's missing is them. It's waste to them, but it's a box to somebody else. So we're effectively taking somebody's waste box, and we just find someone else to reuse it. And if we can do that, it's gonna save everybody money and be much better Mhmm. For the environment.

Richard Hill [00:11:50]:
That's great. So they're literally, you probably get in the same box back several times and in that instance maybe.

Jack Good [00:11:56]:
We do search

Richard Hill [00:11:57]:
key models,

Jack Good [00:11:57]:
so we can we can help. You know, we've got, you know, maybe, plastic cap manufacturers that send plastic caps to a drinks factory. So we'll help them reuse their box in a circular bottle. So we collect it from the destination, pick it up, and send it back to the the source. We do a few models. Yeah. Mhmm. So it's

Richard Hill [00:12:21]:
Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, it's gonna resonate because I think think every like I said at the beginning, everyone listening, really, is in it and it has a store, has a warehouse. You know? Yeah. So, Lee, I'm I'm pretty much buying cardboard boxes. Most of them will be the brown brown cardboard boxes. You know? Like I say, I remember back in the day, and I think, you know, how many of our listeners right now are actually buying recycled boxes. I would imagine that it's staggeringly low percentage. Whereas in effect, they can obviously work with a company like yourself and contribute to a few less trees.

Richard Hill [00:12:53]:
They keep getting chopped off in in a in a brutal sort of brutal sense of its 3,000,000,000,000, did you say?

Jack Good [00:12:59]:
3,000,000,000,000 since we started not not not me, but humans Yeah. Since we started messing around with the planet. Yeah. But about 3,000,000,000 trees a year, we cut down to make cardboard. Yeah. And, Yeah. It's it's one of the better packaging solutions, so we're not bashing it. You know? And and the recycle the paper recycling industry, you know, it has a benefit.

Jack Good [00:13:18]:
It's important that we do it. But reusing them is a simple simple way to save a lot of money. I mean, if if any of your listeners, you know, if they're eCom retailers or fulfillment centers, if we can find them a box to reuse, it's probably gonna be 50% cheaper because that's what it would've cost to make it. Yeah. We've not had to to do, obviously. And in terms of impact, every ton, so that's gonna be about 2 or 3 pallets of boxes. Yeah. It's gonna save 3 trees from being cut down, about 1.1 tons of carbon, and like I said, about 16,000 kilowatt hours of energy.

Jack Good [00:13:51]:
That's a big start.

Richard Hill [00:13:52]:
So somebody who is sitting here now listening, that's trying to get buy in from their senior leadership to be more sustainable. Yeah. To be more environmentally friendly. I think that you you just sort of said the stats there, really. But, you know, what would you say to them, though, if they're they're trying to right. You know what? We've spent, you know, whatever it is, a $100 a month on packaging. You know, we've been buying it from the same place and doing the same thing, you know, probably damaging whatever you wanna call it for so many years. But, you know, they wanna go to their management, get buy in from them to sort of change that process and also potentially change other things in the business? What would you say to them?

Jack Good [00:14:31]:
Well, I guess there's a couple couple things going on there. I think, principally, if you're in a business and you want the leadership to make decisions or or you want them to change behaviors within the company, I think you've well, the way I was thinking about it is I I I've got like a weird thing I can remember my dad saying to me when I was little. He used to say, people are always interested in what's in it for them. You know? So I think that principle applies if you wanna influence any kind of decision. If you're gonna go to your boss and you want them to make a change, whether it's reusing boxes or something completely else, they've they're only gonna act if they understand what's in it for them. So, you know, in my example, if you wanted to get your company to reuse boxes, you'd say, well, we're gonna do something great for the planet. Yep. Our customers are gonna love it.

Richard Hill [00:15:17]:
And they're 30% cheaper.

Jack Good [00:15:18]:
And they're gonna save you 50%. Yeah. So Yeah. You know, if if you ask any MD or or leader, is there any reason why you wouldn't wanna do that? I I don't know why they would say no.

Richard Hill [00:15:28]:
I mean, that's a very compelling argument, Jack. And I think, you know, Eddie, leader, business owner, the person responsible for that packaging and and developing the sustainability side of any business. Yeah. Absolute no brainer, is it? Why would they not do it?

Jack Good [00:15:45]:
Exactly. And if they still won't do it, then maybe get a job somewhere else. Yeah. I'm thinking that too.

Richard Hill [00:15:49]:
I'm thinking that too. So, sustainability, you know, I think it's a word that gets banded around quite a lot. Mhmm. You know, a lot of people sort of, oh, we do this for stability. We're doing this for sustainability. Do you think now quite a lot of people maybe not doing things for the right reason? They're just doing it as a tick box exercise to maybe get a you know, to say, yay. We're we're doing this and we're doing that. What would you say to maybe some of those guys that are maybe, you know, you see them on LinkedIn pushing out posts about we did this, we did this, you know, when it's such and such a week, and they may be raving on about they've done this, this, this, but they don't really maybe they don't really care, which is, you know, a bit of an extreme statement.

Richard Hill [00:16:33]:
Do you do you what what what would you say to sort of firms that are maybe doing it for the wrong reason?

Jack Good [00:16:42]:
I don't know. Well, sustainability's, is quite it's a minefield. Right? It's a real minefield. And I guess the the problem is we know that consumers prefer the sustainable option and will pay more for the sustainable option every time. There's a lot of work that's been done on that. Yeah. I think, Walmart did a study just a few years ago, and consumers would rather pay a bit more for a for a low impact product. Yeah.

Jack Good [00:17:08]:
And, of course, there's there's not really a lot of legislation in place at the moment. So you've got lots of these kind of green claims, and some of them are very accurate and some of them aren't. And there's a lot of people profiteering out of it. So, yeah. So I I think you have to be I think you have to be careful. I I think there's different groups of people. There's people that are be want to make their want to reduce their company's environmental impact because they they they feel like it's it's a business plan. You know, they feel like if we do this, our customers will like us and we'll sell more products.

Jack Good [00:17:44]:
There's other people that do it because they're worried about, you know, our competitors doing it, or is there legislation eCom in? And then there's probably the 3rd group of people that do it because they care about it. And as someone in the industry, as someone in the industry, I I could tell you most people don't do it because they care about it, unfortunately. But that is changing. But I think the thing the the the thing that people are starting to realize, which I touched on earlier, is that a lower impact, more sustainable company is gonna be a more productive, more profitable company. Mhmm. So I think people need to I think businesses should look at it with their business hat on as well as their kind of environmental hat. You know? That's that's the way I would look at it.

Richard Hill [00:18:28]:
Yeah. No. I I see.

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Richard Hill [00:19:09]:
So 12 years, in the making. Yeah. I know, locally, we are actually obviously, our listeners won't know this, but we are quite close physically in terms of our the location. You're about 40 minutes from us. And I noticed that, on Friday, you were at at the Newark Business Awards, and you had a Yeah. Successful evening, I believe. You know, how fundamental of awards and sort of, getting the brand out there with, like, networking and awards being to the success of your business?

Jack Good [00:19:39]:
Awards? So, we've not really we've not really done much in terms of awards in the past. It's only very recently that we've done that. And to be fair, I I used to think, you know, this is, do I wanna go to an award? Do we wanna, like, apply to an awards show? Because sometimes I I used to think, you know, is this just people making money selling you drinks and and meals and that kind of thing? But but recently, we've been to some award shows, and I kind of, looked at it in a different light. You know, I kind of began to realize sometimes with, like, small businesses, you know, which most of the companies are at these awards, you don't really get much chance to, like, stop and look back and to celebrate and to speak to other people that are always also going through this kinda journey because that's what a company is really. And, yeah, just recently, we went to a couple of awards. We were successful, which helps. But,

Richard Hill [00:20:34]:
so good for morale, good for the team, good for meeting people on maybe a similar path. That's where we're not the same industry, but business owners, building a business, building a team. Yeah. Got it.

Jack Good [00:20:44]:
I just think it's great for it's great for, you know, most people that work in businesses, you know, they're they're doing all this hard thing to build their business. They're working as hard as they can. They've got competitors. They've got pressures. They've also got stuff going on in in their personal lives. You know? And I think Yeah. It struck me the last award show we went to, how great it is actually to give all these people, like, a little break and to make them feel special and

Richard Hill [00:21:06]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:21:07]:
To let them network. And some of the conversations were were quite cool as well. So Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:21:12]:
So you're a big fan of awards now then?

Jack Good [00:21:15]:
Yeah. Maybe. Little bit. So, obviously, 12 years

Richard Hill [00:21:19]:
is a lot it's a long time, you know, especially in especially in, you know, in ecommerce, in in any business. And, obviously, you know, I've seen from you know, I've I've sort of your brand and and company sort of I've been made aware of probably about 18 months ago. You know, I know a couple of people that work with you or work for you. Now over that 12 year journey, obviously, you don't, maybe set out on day 1 to so we're gonna have this, this, this, and to to what you've got now. Obviously, a very successful business. Maybe step us through some of those key moments and key decisions that you've gone through in that 12 year journey journey that have maybe taken you from maybe a little plateau in the business? Just do we're we're doing x amount. We've been doing x amount for a while. Mhmm.

Richard Hill [00:22:00]:
What are some of the key decisions or marketing strategies or things within the business or decisions that you've had to make that have really helped you to propel you, whether that's right. We decided to employ a certain person, run a certain marketing vertical strategy. Anything specific that stands out, maybe where you hit a pop you hit a mark, I think, to get to that you know, to get from x to triple x, we're gonna have to make some quite, you know, big decisions.

Jack Good [00:22:28]:
Yeah. Well, I don't know how typical our experience of creating a company was. So I don't know how well it applies. You know? But we, we we basically we didn't we didn't want to set up a company. And when I was, like, 17, I definitely didn't wanna sell cardboard boxes. It was overly dream spot.

Richard Hill [00:22:49]:
Have that conversation with your careers adviser at school?

Jack Good [00:22:51]:
No. From leave the no. And it was probably about a year before we realized we had set up a company, really. So Yeah. And, again yeah. So what basically happened was my my mom and dad, they had, like, a small business, and they were suffering financially. And, we didn't we couldn't, we didn't have any money, basically. We couldn't buy, like, food, heating, you know, the house.

Jack Good [00:23:15]:
These are really big problems, so I wanted to help. And we had to try and get money in. I I tried to get a job. That was my first plan. Get a job. Applied for a job at KFC. Got turned down. So it was like, okay.

Jack Good [00:23:31]:
We have to just sell buy and sell some stuff. And then we discovered this business, throwing away pallets and pallets of used boxes.

Richard Hill [00:23:38]:
There's just one company you found that were doing this. Yeah.

Jack Good [00:23:41]:
Yeah. And then, you know, on the same industrial site, there's another company buying the same boxes in for, like, 10 well, they were they were paying neighbors. 4 or 5 £100, and then, you know, company 1 was actually paying to get rid of them. So we were able to do that, and then we thought it was probably a fluke. But then what we realized was, you know, every company on the industrial state was doing the same thing.

Richard Hill [00:24:02]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:24:02]:
And it turns out, you know, all businesses across the UK do this every day. They throw away

Richard Hill [00:24:07]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:24:08]:
Cardboard boxes, which they don't need to well, which are perfectly reusable Yeah. And we're able to sell them on. So I guess my point is we didn't we didn't have a business plan. We didn't, intend to make a business. And also, because I was, like, 16, 17, I was working with my dad. It was really like me and him to start with. But there was no there was no business now there. So, you know, sort of the first 5 or 6 years, we were just making mistake after mistake after mistake, and then eventually, we ran out of mistakes.

Jack Good [00:24:44]:
You've made them all.

Richard Hill [00:24:45]:
You'd learn you'd learn a lot.

Jack Good [00:24:46]:
So that was me that that's probably the thing I did was I ran out of mistakes to make. But probably the the the thing that's helped us really is, the thing that's probably helped us is, I got this nice idea I came up with recently. It was more around, like, hiring people because we're we're we're hiring at the moment. We're growing. But, the principle was if we're hiring, can we make our company part of the success story that is their life? Yeah. So make our part make our company part of the success story that is your life if you're gonna work with us. And in exchange, obviously, they that employee has to be part of the success story that is ReusableBox. So I hit on that idea, I guess, just about 2 or 3 years ago.

Jack Good [00:25:30]:
But that's had a really big impact, and it felt it was free to everything, you know, like suppliers, customers. You know, what's the problem that we're solving for them, and how can we be part of that success story for them? You know, this company that's, doing that wants to reduce their impact, they're doing this amazing initiative, and they're shouting about it. They're engaging with their customers about it and raising awareness. That's what they wanna do as a as a a company. How can we be part of that success story Mhmm. With Reusable Box? And the same with suppliers when there's companies that wanna reduce their impact. You know, looking at it through the lens of how can we be part of the success story that is what they wanna do. Yeah.

Jack Good [00:26:08]:
So I don't yeah.

Richard Hill [00:26:10]:
So that's how you attract talent to the business as well?

Jack Good [00:26:13]:
It's it's probably just the secret to doing something successfully in in life, not just in business. You know? It's it's adding value to people, isn't it, at the end of the day? But that's helped us attract good people. And I think also just having those kinds of conversations

Richard Hill [00:26:28]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:26:29]:
People find much more engaging and much more, smarter.

Richard Hill [00:26:33]:
Part of something that inspires them. Yeah. They're spending their time doing something that's having an imp positive impact.

Jack Good [00:26:41]:
Yeah. And that's it's a funny thing as well because we built this kind of purpose driven company that does a very positive thing for society and for the environment. But, again, complete fluke. We didn't mean to do that. You know? Obviously, like, that's my life now, and, I'm very invested in that and passionate about it. But it was a complete accident. But, but it it, I yeah. Everyone I speak to that comes for a job pretty much.

Jack Good [00:27:07]:
You know? If you get if you keep asking them enough questions in the interview, what you get down to is they felt a lack of purpose in their current job. Yeah. And that's why they're leaving. Yeah. Yeah. Of course, after after a few years, I realized as probably everyone listening probably knew before me that you can only get so far when it's you. If you wanna if you wanna keep growing, you need people, and those people need to be able to

Richard Hill [00:27:29]:
I think that's a brilliant point. Yeah. Especially for the for everybody listening, but the business owners that are listening that are maybe having challenges with retention of people, you know, which is a, you know, is a big issue in in a lot of businesses, I think. And, you know, there's there's there's various reasons why I I think that people stay with businesses and, you know, there's there's there's an obvious one or not obvious, but, you know, there's the money side to which everyone thinks is the only thing, but it's definitely not the only thing, is it? They wanna be doing something where they're making a difference. They're being heard. Their day to day is something they really enjoy. They're contributing to a bigger picture. They're aware of the bigger picture.

Richard Hill [00:28:08]:
They are they are heard. They're you know, they can get involved, and I think a lot of business owners miss that. Where they just people think they just come in and come and go and get paid. Well, people don't really wanna just do that anymore. They never did, but been able to do something where they can make an impact, have an impact, learn. You know? I think it's a lot of business owners miss that part about team, and just did well, I pay them really well. I don't know what the problem is. It's like, woah.

Richard Hill [00:28:36]:
Woah. Hang on a minute. There's so much more to to, having a, you know, having a career or a job, you know, and doing something that you really enjoy.

Jack Good [00:28:45]:
Yeah. Well, there have been studies done that have found it's changing all the time now because of inflation, but I there's a study a few years ago, and I think it was like, you know, once people get up to about £70,000 a year salary in the UK, money actually doesn't matter. Yeah. It doesn't matter at all. And and the reason it's important for an employer or somebody that's just, you know, trying to build a team from my experience is, basically, you're only one hire away from, you know, completely changing the the fortunes and the trajectory of your company. Right?

Richard Hill [00:29:17]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:29:18]:
In the same way that, you know, you're only one sale away from Yeah. From that. You know? So Yeah. So yeah. But that's something I think we did quite well at ReusableBox, by by accident or by running out of mistakes

Richard Hill [00:29:32]:
to me.

Jack Good [00:29:33]:
You made the ball.

Richard Hill [00:29:34]:
They oh, that's a good things now. That's a good thing now. Yeah. Because I mean, hiring and retaining, you know, we we talk about a lot of sort of, mechanical parts of a of running a successful business and a successful, store. But, ultimately, you can't do that without people. You know, that's you know, you'll be a 1 month, 2 month, 5 month band forevermore, but we know very much what we're talking about is scaling, you know, on the on the podcast and, you know, the people piece, which I think a lot of people find the most difficult piece. Yeah. But, obviously, it sounds like you've cracked it to a to a point.

Richard Hill [00:30:04]:
Anything else you would add on on sort of, on sort of looking after your team and sort of, making you know, has the user box? As you tell us, it's a great place to work.

Jack Good [00:30:18]:
Yeah. It's a great

Richard Hill [00:30:18]:
place to work. Survey with all your team.

Jack Good [00:30:21]:
It is. I forget the start, but I think we were, like, top 10% of companies to work for in the UK or something in a Yeah. In a poll, which which is the main I was surprised. It's amazing. Yeah. I don't know. Probably probably things that other people have said, but, you know, listening Yeah. Listening is I don't think I was naturally blessed as a good listener.

Jack Good [00:30:41]:
But, again, you try every day for 12 years. Eventually, you get better at listening. And, and, yeah, you know, I I, yeah, I I think most I think most people that are unhappy in a company or or unproductive, they're they're not being listened to

Richard Hill [00:30:58]:
Yeah. At some point. Yeah. I think that's great advice. So is there any specific marketing activity that you've done or you're doing over and above what you talked about already, you know, any particular channel that's done or specific campaign that's done really well for you that's really helped you? Ultimately, I assume we are obviously trying to get or you are getting in front of more and more companies that are using boxes, whether that's eCom stores in the instance of our listeners. Yeah. Is there any specific thing or or strategy that you've done or you're doing that's really helped you to win more business?

Jack Good [00:31:35]:
Yeah. That's a good good question. I think probably the biggest thing you

Richard Hill [00:31:41]:
Don't be afraid. There'll only be 50,000 people here this answer.

Jack Good [00:31:45]:
Well, yeah, I guess you could call it a marketing strategy. But something that we did, only about 2 or 3 years ago, is we we stopped being a car thank God. We stopped being a cardboard box company that's trying to sell our boxes, you know, to to customers. And we said, actually, there's there's a much bigger purpose around what we're doing. You know, when we discovered the environmental benefits, which is another story in itself, when we discovered, like, that we'd accidentally created a an impact business as the trending term is, and a purpose driven business who said, hang on. Rather than trying to sell what we're doing to businesses, why don't we just say to people, this is what we're trying to achieve. Do you want to join us? Yeah. So we we kind of changed what we're doing into more of a movement.

Jack Good [00:32:37]:
We're more of a community project. So we we contact people every day, and we just say to them, we are on a mission to keep boxes in use for longer simply because it's better for the planet, probably save you a lot of money. Do you wanna join us? Do you wanna join in on that? You know? You don't have to leave your current supplier, but do you wanna join us?

Richard Hill [00:32:55]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:32:55]:
Yeah. And since we did that, we had thousands of businesses join us all over the country. And we we really work hard on that community vibe. You know? So if you you join us, you get, like, an online profile, a dashboard that you can make public if you want, and it shows your reuse journey, how many boxes are you reusing, what's the trees, the carbon, the energy, the water that you're saving. We give people nice, equivalencies. You know, that's the same as so many return flights

Richard Hill [00:33:22]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:33:22]:
From from London to New York. And we help them share that with their customers. You know? We help them brand it on the box as well. We we, you know, we we always try and brand a used box, and we set you know, we we get quite playful with it. You know, you might get you as a customer, you might might get a box turn up, and it might say on it, this isn't my first rodeo. And then a QR code, and you can scan it, and you get the profile, and then you get that story. Or the profile of the box? It's a profile of the company to say this is our impact journey. We're we're choosing to reuse these boxes because it's better for the planet.

Jack Good [00:33:52]:
We hope you don't mind Yeah. Which nobody minds, obviously. It's a lot quite

Richard Hill [00:33:56]:
a lot of firms will do. It's the same thing, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you know, we'll publish, like, an I think an impact statement at the beginning of the year. Is that the right terminology? I think it is. And, obviously, that's you know, this year or last year, we've, you know, we've we've used 50,000 recycled boxes, which means that we haven't used this, this, and this, which means that 50,000,000 trees or whatever. Maybe not 50,000,000, but 50,000 trees have not had to be chopped down because we've recycled this, and we've done this and this.

Jack Good [00:34:23]:
That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. And then his pop joins in on our mission as well because it's like we're trying to raise awareness. People don't know this. You know? So, yeah, and that that's something I don't know I don't know whether I'd call it, like, a marketing strategy, but it's just something we decided to do. Yeah. I don't So

Richard Hill [00:34:40]:
so it is it's sort of I I think that's so smart. You know? And I like to say you're not less so doing it, you know, as a marketing strategy, but you're building a community, a brand that people wanna be involved with just by educating, letting people know the impact on what or what. There's this option over here to use, you know, ReizaBox. So the impact of that is this, this, this. Yeah. You might buy something if you wanna be involved with this, but the commercial side is it's gonna be cheaper, but the impact is this, this, and this. I think that's brilliant. You know?

Jack Good [00:35:11]:
Well, I spent years, you know, cold calling and trying to sell boxes Yeah. To companies. You know, it's, as boring as labor as that sounds. And, it's like a it's like, it's reframing it into, we wanna do this. Do you wanna join us? Yeah. And then the conversations eCom, how do we put our heads together, and what can we do, you know, to reduce impact. And and that's it's a very different experience because, you know, trying to run a company or build a company, it's quite a hard it's quite a hard thing. There's a lot of weight on your shoulders, but, you know, the moment you start having people share that weight with you, it becomes a completely different ballgame, I think.

Jack Good [00:35:54]:
So, yeah. So that's what we did. And then we we went one step further, and we said, okay. So we know you know, we've shopped to discover all this damage that the cardboard industry is doing, so let's try and do something about it more productive. So every time a box is reused through a user box, it's also funding, like reforestation and climate action. So we're trying to actually fix the damage that that's been done by the companies that came before us. Yeah. So I know that's another rabbit hole as well, that one.

Richard Hill [00:36:23]:
Yeah. Because I think a lot of firms, well, they'll they'll sign up for the various services that are out there based on their you know, they'll replant or plant so many trees a month when they and obviously, offsets every year. So a lot of companies will offset, unplanned trees. You know, what what are your thoughts on that? You know, is there there are there better things that companies can be doing? Or

Jack Good [00:36:45]:
Yeah. Well, some, again, my dad said this to me once. I always remember it. Two pieces of good advice he gave me. Advice number 2 was, there's not it's not always about because I used to ring him and be like, oh, I got this deal. What shall I do? What do you think? And then he said to me, something like, there's not always, there's not always a right and a wrong way to do things. Sometimes there's just different ways of doing it. And, we know that, trees and, you know, natural, you know, trees and plants Yeah.

Jack Good [00:37:19]:
They're one of the most effective ways we have of drawing carbon out of the atmosphere.

Richard Hill [00:37:23]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:37:24]:
We know that that's a really big challenge of our time that falls, unfortunately, on the shoulders of businesses. And I think it's absolutely a great thing to do. But like anything, you know, the more you dig, there's people that do it well. There's people that don't do it so well. Yep. And there are other things businesses can do to reduce their impact as well. Yep. You know, like reusing boxes.

Richard Hill [00:37:46]:
Yeah. Like I said, it's a bit of a minefield out there, isn't it, for people that are you know, they're trying to not so much of minefield, but you you you obviously want to do the right thing. Yeah. You might go to Google and search, you know, right, I wanna plant x amount of trees. You come across the firms that are maybe, you know, ranking well or whatever to to then pay a monthly subscription to plant how I've made trees or every now and then sign up, you know, an amount. But it's then what is behind that company, how much of your actual money you've spent is actually getting spent on planting trees?

Jack Good [00:38:18]:
Yeah. A lot of people there's little things that people don't realize that often, you know, if you plant a 1,000,000 trees, like, a lot of them, they don't make it. They die. That's just part of the process. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, I mean, we, so we we've funded or are funding a project with, Eden Reforestation. Oh, I forgot it.

Jack Good [00:38:39]:
Yeah. So we're funding a project of Eden reforestation. So that's in Africa. And, so we're planting a 1000000 trees of protected forest. But, obviously, it's an environmental thing, and there's some great things happening there. You've got stories of, you know, riverbeds that had run dry, and now they're they're they're running with water again. You know, you areas that were on the verge of ecosystem collapse that had been repaired. But when we started that project, one of the things that I was actually proudest of was the social impact around it.

Jack Good [00:39:08]:
That's something that often doesn't get talked about. So, that particular project, they've got more than 10,000 people in full time employment, and this is in some of the poorest areas of the world, I should probably add Yeah. Because that's the areas that are worst affected by climate change. Yeah. And many of those people, they're the first ever in their family's history to ever have jobs, you know, disposable income

Richard Hill [00:39:32]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:39:32]:
Education, access to health care. So there's a there's a I think there's a real unsung social impact. A lot of the reforestation, projects that are going on. But, yeah, there are loads of things you can do to reduce your impact. You know? It's only one small thing.

Richard Hill [00:39:48]:
Yep. Okay. So b corp. Yeah. People that are listening now that are thinking, right, you know, I really wanna get involved with b corp, want to become a b corp. You know, what would you say to those people? You know, how important is it to businesses to work towards becoming a

Jack Good [00:40:08]:
b corp? Well, I think if you're a business listing, I I I can't say, you know, I don't know what's the most important thing to you, so I probably couldn't comment on that. But, our experience of of becoming a b corp really was stuck in this minefield of sustainability, you know, wanting to because we realized we had an impact business, so we wanted to work out, okay. How do we build a truly sustainable company that does a good thing? And, obviously, the more you look, the more of a headache you get and the more worrying it is. And the reason we got into B Corp is because we discovered that they basically they give you a free framework. There's a thing called the the b lab and

Richard Hill [00:40:52]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:40:52]:
It's a free framework. It's very, very detailed. And, basically, step by step, it's it's telling you how to, the sorts of things you need to be doing to to build a better company. It's not just environmental. It's like social as well. Yeah. And the and the idea is is how can we how can we build a movement of businesses that that are pro profit but have a positive impact on people and planet. Mhmm.

Jack Good [00:41:17]:
And that's I think, that's what the the greatest businesses have always done. You know, they they've looked after their people. They've looked after society. They've solved real problems. And, you know, the environmental problem is one of those. And it just so happens that those companies, are obviously more sustainable.

Richard Hill [00:41:36]:
So is it it's a great framework, isn't it? Like you say, for companies that that maybe wanna do more, but they're not quite sure. Are we already doing enough? Are we sure we can what else can we be doing? And, you know, I think there's a lot of great business leaders out there that that look after their people. You know, they're very aware of the planet and the environment and and contribute in in in certain ways to to improving things. But I think, like you say, it sort of gives a framework just to go, oh, yeah. We do oh, I didn't think of that. We we actually do you know what? We could do more with that if we looked at, you know, the way that we do this, this, and this. We can we can impact here, and we can, you know, actually, we don't have a document that actually lays out exactly how we should do that. So that, you know, from my perspective, it's very similar to yours.

Richard Hill [00:42:17]:
I think it gives a very good, strong guideline of things that you can go, yeah. Yeah. Oh, actually, no. And then Yeah. You know, and I think it is quite fairly stringent. It's probably not the right word, but fairly you know, it's not straightforward. You've obviously got

Jack Good [00:42:31]:
to improve your

Richard Hill [00:42:31]:
things, so it's quite a good, sort of the mechanics behind it.

Jack Good [00:42:36]:
Yeah. I'd say it's incredibly detailed, but that's the way to look at it is it's completely free, and they'll give you a step by step guide is the way I would look at it, that shows you how to build a better company environmentally, and socially. And you don't even have to become or apply for a B Corp. You can just follow these steps. And that really is a problem with small micro businesses is, you know, when when when you're in a small business, often you've got multiple jobs to do. You often well, if it comes to something like sustainability, either you often you don't know, you don't know what the best option is, and often you know, if you know, if you the reason to do it is because it's gonna build you a better company Yeah. You know Yeah. That has a positive impact on people and planet, but it's also gonna build you a probably a better company that makes more money as well.

Jack Good [00:43:32]:
So

Richard Hill [00:43:33]:
Yeah.

Jack Good [00:43:33]:
There aren't many reasons not to not to look into it. Yeah. Though, obviously, we're a b corp, and I did hear an event recently that there's, at the moment, there's round about a 1000000 companies globally that are going through the application process. So you can see that it's a really a really big movement.

Richard Hill [00:43:51]:
Yeah. We're we're we're 1 of the 1,000,000. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. It's, it's a fantastic movement, and I'm looking forward to getting more and more involved with it. So crystal ball time, we sat here in 12 months' time.

Richard Hill [00:44:06]:
What are some of those the exciting things that you've got coming down the line with Vuzorbox?

Jack Good [00:44:10]:
12 months. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:44:11]:
It's not long.

Jack Good [00:44:13]:
So we're, we're launching, like, a new online platform at some point. It's running a bit late at the moment, but at some point, by the end of the summer, that should be out. Yeah. And it's basically just gonna really, really make our concept was, can we give people a better way to buy cardboard boxes? Yeah. Because it's a very clunky, industry, basically. You know? And and companies out there, they all no matter how big or small, they all seem to like to run out and then order, and then they get headaches from it. So I won't go too much into it, but, yeah, we spent a long time, creating a very intuitive online platform that makes it really, really, really easy to order cardboard boxes, and to reuse boxes and to track your impact in part of a community. So

Richard Hill [00:45:00]:
Look forward to seeing that in a Yeah. Well, thanks, Jack, for coming on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure. Well, I like to finish every episode with a book recommendation.

Jack Good [00:45:08]:
Do you

Richard Hill [00:45:08]:
have a book to recommend to our listeners?

Jack Good [00:45:10]:
I do. Yes. So, the the a book that I read recently that I think was really helpful is it's called The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle. Hope you've read that.

Richard Hill [00:45:21]:
I have it, but I haven't actually read

Jack Good [00:45:22]:
it yet. You got it.

Richard Hill [00:45:23]:
I do have it. It's on my shelf at home.

Jack Good [00:45:25]:
It's a really good book. It's really good. I definitely recommend it. Basically, it's it's, he went around looking at these high performing teams, and he's basically trying to analyze, you know, companies like Apple and Yes. And people like that. You know, what did they do to build these really high performing, teams that achieve great things?

Richard Hill [00:45:44]:
Sounds fascinating. Yeah. I will it's one of the many on my shelf that I haven't quite got to yet, but, no, I'll I'll I'll get that linked up in the show notes as well for everybody that's listening. So for those that wanna find out more about you, more about ReusableBox, what's what's the best way to do that?

Jack Good [00:45:59]:
You can go to ReusableBox dotco.uk. Yep. And we also have a podcast if you're a while, so you can listen to that. And and that's designed to really help educate businesses around, you know, how can I make my business more sustainable? Well, thank you very much

Richard Hill [00:46:14]:
for coming on the show. I look forward to catching up with you again and seeing how you get on with your new your new platform that you're launching. Thank you. Thanks for eComOne

Richard Hill [00:46:26]:
on. If you enjoyed this episode, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this podcast. You're always the first to know when

Richard Hill [00:46:32]:
a new episode is released. Have a fantastic day, and I'll see you on the next one.