E141: Emma Derbyshire

Richard:
Hi, and welcome to another episode of eCom@One. Today's guest, Emma Derbyshire, Head of Growth at eCom@One. How you doing, Emma?

Emma Derbyshire:
Hey, I'm good, thank you. How are you?

Richard:
I am very good. I'm very good. Now, normally me and Emma are sat in the same room, to be fair, or next door to each other. But today Emma is working from home and I'm in the office. But I think it'll be great to kick off, Emma, and introduce yourself and tell the listeners how you got into the world of e-commerce?

Emma Derbyshire:
Yeah, sure. I don't know how interesting that is, really. So I started working in digital marketing when I was about 23. Agency side again, so that was kind of where I got my love and buzz for everything digital. So started with content, the SEO side of things, outreach, PR, all of that. And then I did a couple of jobs in house and realized that it wasn't as fun, wasn't as challenging, just working on the same brand all the time, personally. So when I started working for you was when I was first properly introduced to e-commerce. But I think a lot of the methodologies and practices that I'd learned in the past are kind of applicable. But what's really exciting I think about the e-com space is how diverse retailers have to be in order to be able to stay afloat, stay ahead of the competition. So it's been a massive learning curve, but it's really, really great and I think I'm excited to see where the next 12 months takers with all of our e-com clients.

Richard:
So Emma works with the majority of our clients on their strategy and works with the team that deliver that strategy. But Emma spends a lot of time devising strategy and looking at existing clients and new and potential new clients on where they are with things. Now, when we break it down internally and when we look at any sort of business, you've got this acquisition piece and you've got this retention piece. Now I think we've done probably 120 odd episodes around acquisition more so, but more recently this last 12 months definitely more around the retention. But what does retention mean to you, Emma, and why is it so important?

Emma Derbyshire:
I think answering the kind of second part of your question first, retention is so important because you tend to get a better ROI from your marketing with retention. So when we're talking about retention, we're not talking about trying to grab the eye of new customers that don't know anything about you yet, perhaps don't know that they need your service or your products, but they've already invested. So with them being already invested, it's absolutely essential that brands are making the most of that opportunity to keep them invested into the brand. So I think it's about adding value. So obviously at the agency we focus on the CVO, so that's customer value optimization. So getting the most out of customers, but that has to be a really kind of two-way thing. So making sure that they're getting as much value or you are offering as much value as well. So I think retention for me is making the most of those who are already invested in your brands, but also making sure that you are making the most of how you can offer them value as well.

Richard:
And I think that's going to resonate with everybody listening, but some guys were like, well it's so competitive out there, there's so many people and I think there isn't many niches, let's be realistic, that aren't competitive. So that's pretty normal guys to be in a super competitive niche. Doesn't matter how big you are, there's always somebody 10 times bigger, no matter who's listening, whether you're doing a million pounds a year, a week, a day, there's usually somebody a few steps in front or a lot of steps in front. But what would you say to those guys about how can those companies retain in very competitive marketplaces?

Emma Derbyshire:
It's a difficult question because there's lots of different things. I think a lot of it depends on their niche they're offering. We're talking about e-commerce specifically. So what products they're offering, do they offer any kind of additional services? Are they resellers? Because often if you are a reseller you have less flexibility on things that you can offer like discounts and promotions and things like that. But I say first and foremost, it's about being present on the channels that matter. So that's taking you right back to basic marketing strategy. Where are your audience, what are they looking for? Make sure you are delivering that on the right platform. So that's the absolute kind of A, B, C, 1, 2, 3 of it.

And then I think on top of that it's about creating a personalized experience. So I get teased as you well know in the office, for always saying personalization equals conversion, but it's so true. So making sure that every touchpoint is as personalized as possible. So thinking about emails specifically, making sure that you're not just blanket sending emails out that you are making the experience personalized to their behavior or their previous engagement or purchases with the brands. And then just making sure you're giving a little bit something back. So again, touching on the point you made before, it's all well and good asking them to spend more money. If we are thinking about all of the economic situation that we are in at the moment, people have less disposable incomes with the cost of living rising and rising. So people are thinking more generally about how they're spending their money.

So yes, it's great for you to be able to promote your products and stuff like that, but you are constantly asking people to part with their disposable income that is kind of shrinking for most families at the moment. So I think it's really important to be able to offer value elsewhere. So is that creating great content that's really, really helpful to them. There's answering their specific pain points at the right time in the right way so that you can show that you're invested in them and you want to add value to their lives as well as just getting money out of their kind of hard earned pockets I suppose.

Richard:
So it's not, I think quite a few things there, but I think the reality is can't just list your products on your site and expect people to come back and back again unless you are connecting with them. Whether that's through a series of emails, whether that's through a series of helpful content. One thing I really think is quite a standout area of retention is packaging. There's been quite a few things, especially during lockdown that I subscribe to, a bit of a coffee addict, if I have to admit.

Emma Derbyshire:
Are you?

Richard:
Yeah, here we go. Look, there we are. My second one of the day. But the way that a lot of the coffee brands that are subscription based, obviously you've got that first order, but it's not about necessarily that first order and you've got quite a small order value. I think it's like a seven or eight pound, nine pound, 10 pound, 11. They vary. I've got a few different ones. It's between a seven and 11 pound. It's a small order value, but there are coffee brands or coffee companies that I have been subscribed to for four years. So four years times 11 pounds all of a sudden that is whatever, try and do the maths. It's like, what's that about 600 quid? Is it somewhere there? 500 pounds?

Emma Derbyshire:
Yeah.

Richard:
So 11 pound order gone to a 500 pound order. Now some of the things that those guys do, just if we just talk about the packaging at the moment, each time I get an order, that box arrives, it's a customized box, the actual box is customized or personalized and I open it up and it says, Hey Richard, not in that dodgy accent, but it says, Hey Richard, welcome to the X, Y, Z level within that, they're using certain loyalty schemes within their system to then personalize the packaging to then make me aware that I'm a couple of orders away from X or within that also the way it's packaged and the information in it talks then about the family of growers of that particular coffee that month.

So then I've got this little image of the area in wherever it may be in the world because it someone's grown all over the place and a little bit of a description about the family that grew it and the heritage and the family's sort of tradition of growing coffee if that's the case. So I'm buying into the story and every time I get this coffee I'm like, oh, I sit there, it's like an experience, it's 10 quid or whatever, it's a low value purchase. But here, lo and behold, 3, 4, 5 years later, some of these firms, I think I've got three on the go now, they're looking at 500 pounds probably is the lifetime value at the moment. And that, when you think about that listeners, if you're going after that first order, that second order. But what if it depends on what you're selling, doesn't it? Some industries obviously a little bit harder.

Emma Derbyshire:
Well I think that's so important that you touched on experience there and I think that just kind of summarizes it perfectly. If you had to define retention in one word, well how to improve retention, it's experience. So you open that box, it's personalized to you, there's an opportunity to buy into the brand story, which is great. But also we work with a client, you'll know who I'm talking about, who sends thank you notes and a little packet of Skittles of every order that they sent. And I think retention is really important, yes, repeat custom but also for building your brand and brand advocacy. So word of mouth, reviews, recommendations, all of that social proofing and if you've got that parcel, whatever it is, could be low value item that you are opening. You've got a little packet of Skittles and a thank you note, you're could probably going to post that on socials, which is great.

Richard:
Yeah.

Emma Derbyshire:
You'd likely to tell your friends about it or if you don't tell your friends about it immediately, when you're at the pub next and they say, oh I need one of these, you can be like, oh god, use these guys because that experience is great. We're talking about providing good content, providing personalized email content and things like that. And all of that contributes to that experience. So they say what seven touch points before a consumer is likely to convert so that's when you are trying to retain new clients or customers. But I just think it's so important, that journey and that experience matters hugely.

Richard:
Isn't it? I mean it's so many people in every industry, so many companies in every industry. So there's little, I mean he was actually on the podcast, I don't know if to mention his name or not, but he was on the podcast and after the podcast he sent me a book and he sent me some Skittles. It's like but the way he does little touches within his business is very memorable. So he is now one of our favorite customers in our agency. Everybody loves this guy because he's a good guy and the way he runs his business is just through a lens of just doing the right thing, being super attentive to customers and I'm guessing suppliers is really good with, a really good guy to work with.

Emma Derbyshire:
Love it. Yeah.

Richard:
And therefore probably gets possible preferential or very well looked after from his suppliers. But in terms of his relationship with our, there's probably five people here work on his business, I think four of us. He does a lot of things with us, doesn't he? And I know that's one of the company's favorite accounts and because he is such a good guy. Now if you can put that, that sounds a little bit hairy farer, but if you put that into your day-to-day how you deal with, if you've got literally hundreds of orders going through. But just a few little touch points can make that order more memorable. I mean the amount of things that can arrive at someone's house or someone's business and they all look the same potentially, especially if it's from Amazon for example, it's just in a little brown box. And next, next, next, if you can make that memorable in that either what else is added to that package or the packaging, but obviously that's one thing.

But in terms of loyalty, I think obviously it's all well and good putting a few extra things in and spending money on packaging and this is quite, can be, it's not as expensive as it sounds but obviously economically it is quite a challenging time out there. What would you say to the guys about maintaining loyalty at the moment when things are a bit more challenging out there? They don't necessarily want to spend too much, but they're aware that they need to work on their attention and their loyalty. What we say to those guys,

Emma Derbyshire:
I think it's about, as we said, offering kind of additional value and also not just incentivizing customers for spending money. So there's loads of stuff. So setting up a loyalty scheme, I mean we can't have a conversation about retention without mentioning loyalty schemes properly. But I'm sure that everybody listening is part of at least one loyalty scheme. I guess like Tesco club cards probably like the most obvious thing. As you're shopping you can literally see your prices coming down and that's great, but it doesn't just have to be about that. It doesn't always have to be give, give, give from the brand in terms of losing that little bit of margin every time you're offering a 10%, 5%. It can be things like on your loyalty scheme you can offer 10 points if they share a blog post or if they refer a friend, if they sign up to your email newsletter, if they create some user-generated content.

User-generated content is so underrated in the e-com space because it's completely free of charge, often, especially in today's kind of day and age and especially with younger audiences, probably a little bit younger than myself now, but they're so good at creating content themselves. You see amazing stuff on TikTok, on Instagram, all these reels that people put together and if a customer is that invested, let's reward them for creating content like that because it saves you time, it saves you resource, you can pull it through on to your website, you can share it across your socials and that's your social proofing as well. So we all know that as consumers, we like to see reviews, we like to hear from real people so well that the brand talking about how great they are but you need other people to be talking about you as well. That's a perfect way.

Somebody uses your hashtag on a user piece of user generated content. Give them a hundred points on their loyalty scheme. If they're referring a friend, give them another 200 points, keep them updated with where they're at. So yes, spending money is great, that's ideally what we're after here, but it's about creating brand advocates, people who will speak on your behalf that will recommend you. And you can do that through so different ways, leaving a review, not even mention that, that is so valuable. We had a conversation didn't we last week about how when we are looking at what's really valuable to us from a client, a review is up there talking about our services, talking about products.

Richard:
Yeah.

Emma Derbyshire:
It's so important. So I think when it is getting tougher and you don't want to be constantly A, discounting, but B, asking your customers for more and more and more in terms of spending, it's really great to show that their input in terms of brand advocacy, creating content is really valued as well. And things like following social pages, you're not asking a lot, but growing your social following is really valuable. Again, social proofing.

Richard:
I think people maybe over complicate loyalty systems a lot, loyalty scheme softwares and you just touched on a lot of different things there. But simply say somebody's ordered from you, listener, and then you're asking them to ultimately work their way through a level of loyalty within your business. And a simple thing could be just to follow you on social media and that's giving them a hundred points for example, towards the next tier. Well following on social media, it means that every time you are posting on social media as a brand, they're likely or a lot more likely to see what you're doing. And then when they're out and when thinking about buying again or a friend of theirs, oh I'm thinking of, you're front of mind. But then ultimately that's just a simple or a follow on social media. There's no real commitment financially, but it is a commitment and that's what thinking about where loyalty, there can be commitment that isn't financial but it could well and it will very likely lead to a financial discount in time.

It's that little micro commitment and another micro-commitment. Subscribe to our email, oh we've now got two commitments. Well from the three four, let's say children's clothing, brands that you've looked at, you've not made any commitments to the other ones who you are likely to then recommend who you're likely to buy from again, it would be the brand that's front and center, the brand you saw on Facebook yesterday and you've already had maybe had one order on or you've subscribed to their newsletter. The way that that newsletter is put together, the professionalism, is it on brand? Is it connected to the site? Not disconnected and poorly put together, that brand element, that's a small commitment but then that first commitment, bigger commitment might be downloading something. But I think a lot of firms feel that they have to discount, you touched on this, what would you say to those that maybe they're loyal, it's just given 5% off everything forever. And we do see that a lot and I think in this day and age, going back to the sort of economic side of things, it's about maintaining profitability. And I think that that worry really worries me that a lot of store owners, business owners are just too easy to discount when really there's need to be really keep an eye on the margins.

Emma Derbyshire:
Yeah. I mean discounting works. I think it would be wrong to sit here and be like, you don't need, well you don't need to, but it doesn't, it does, it does work. But there are ways around it. So if you start from, let's think about email marking specifically here. So you've got to pop up on your website on the home page that offers a 10% discount if somebody subscribes to your email list. So that's really great and if 10% of your margin is worth that every time, that's great, but why not try new things? So why not try, I don't know, a quarterly competition And if somebody signs up then their name gets entered into that draw. So that's just appealing to a consumer. Everybody loves a bit of a gamble, a bit of a luck kind of game. So you add your email address in, see if you win. And big promotion around the winner every quarter so people know that it's legit and it's actually happening.

So I think that's a really good thing. I think experiences are really great. So offering discount, yes, but maybe offering are you doing a brunch with the brand? Is there a new product launch, exclusive launch access to new ranges and new products. It's really, really great. And one thing on that I really think we need to address is only rewarding new customers. That's a real bug bear of mine as a consumer. So a skincare brand that I have bought from religiously since I was about 16, do loads of new promotions to get new customers. So we're talking about this acquisition model here, right? Sing up, new customers sing up, get 20% off, 15% off. And I'm sat there thinking I have spent a fortune with your brand over this time you don't offer a loyalty scheme. So I'm not really getting rewarded for that. I might as well set up 12 different email addresses and just keep making out that I'm a new customer, which is going to dilute your email marketing ever. And I'm just going to keep rinsing that discount from you. So I think it's really important, prime example of discounting is great sometimes to get people involved initially, but there's other ways of doing it just after the people that have been there since day on.

Richard:
Yeah, and that's your retention isn't it? And skincare is an example, notoriously very good margin in a good sense. Whereas obviously other, electronics notorious shocking margin potentially. Whereas we had, I think probably five episodes ago we had a skincare brand done with circa 5, 6, 7, 8, 900% margin on everything. So giving 10% is not so much of a challenge. But those existing customers, how frustrating you've been a customer for a good 10 years and not getting offered any discount. You can see how that's not going to go down very well.

Emma Derbyshire:
You see it on social media campaigns all the time across Meta. I love a bit of a read of comments and comments on social media and you'll see ads promoting discounts for new customers and you see customers complain time and time again, I've been a customer for this amount of time I brought from you six months ago, why are you only offering to new people? And I just think, well they've got a point. So it's so important. Yes, attaining new customers is great but you have to look after them and like I said, it doesn't have to be a discount. Let it be exclusive access to a product range before you let it out to everybody else. Let it be an opportunity to visit the factory or the warehouse. A bit of a competition, kind of gamify it a little bit. Doesn't always have to be oh here's loads of money off, yes it works, but other things work just as well. Do you have brand influencers that your audience are likely to be huge fans of? Can you offer some kind of incentive there that's not finance, meet and greet type thing. There's loads of things that you can do that doesn't have to be 20, 15% off every time

Richard:
It's like, you think of, you know, bought off a company two, three times, you want to go back because you've had a really good experience but not communicated with you maybe a discount or something, a loyalty bonus. Then you're sat there as a customer but then you think, well, so most people obviously are super savvy and they'll try and find a discount code or the savvier of the people will probably go to the Facebook ads library, see if you are running any ads. And in those ads there's probably a discount and getting a discount if it's available. But then that's just leaving a bit of a nasty taste, isn't it? It's like, well why didn't you offer me in the first place or offer me something. But loyalty, obviously a loyalty scheme being better than a straight discount and nothing else. Because obviously you want them to buy the once but then obviously the value is getting them to buy again and again, recommend four years later.

In the perfect world you've had 20 orders off that one customer, several hundred or thousand pounds worth of business. So email. Now I know obviously that you've ordered with the team dozens and dozens and dozens of email accounts and associated sort of assets. What are some of the consistent things that you see e-com stores doing wrong and our listeners need to avoid when it comes to email marketing?

Emma Derbyshire:
First and foremost, I'm obsessed with email marketing for e-com. You asked me earlier how I got into the world of e-com and stuff like that. And I'd say the biggest differentiator between proof experience and e-com is the way that email works. It is magic if you're doing it right, we're so passionate about it, obviously at the agency, a huge area of growth for us for our clients too. There's lots of things that are done wrong. Start trying to do it in a bit of a chronological way, not warming and cleansing data lists is a huge red flag. So you have somebody sign up to your email list, you may be not proactively or strategically offering do doing email marketing, the data gets old, you're sending things that aren't relevant to email addresses that are no longer exist. So it's bouncing, your deliverability rates are absolutely plummeting, which damages your domain.

So I think just making sure that you are really paying attention to your data list. So making sure that you can see how engaged people are and treating them accordingly. If somebody hasn't engaged with your brand in the last 180 days, they're cooling off a little bit. So respect that. Don't leave them alone and never contact them again. That's not what I'm saying, but treat them like they have. So say to them, so you send a flub out but once they hit that point it's like hey we miss you. How are things? Maybe make it personalized for their last purchase. So thinking about my skincare thing, has your serum run out yet? How much have you got left of your serum? That kind of thing to get them reengaged. So I think that data list is so important and patience on that front as well. So warming, making sure that your deliverability to the rate at which your sender is able to deliver emails directly to people's inboxes as opposed to getting filtered into spam. Making sure that you're doing things gradually and not getting greedy.

But then also when you are setting out segments. So list based on people's behavior on the website that you give them time to grow. So if you are doing a birthday flow for example, I think it's really great for e-commerce stores to celebrate customer's birthday and that's another great thing for retention, just acknowledging that it's their birthday. So sending a little free gift, sending a little postcard that says happy birthday or just even an email. But obviously when you set that up you are going to be kind of waiting 12 months so you can send them to somebody. So rather than get an impatient and not, oh it doesn't work, it's not working for us, be patient because these things take time. But once you've got them in that well oiled machine, it works really well.

And then I think not saying thank you to customers after order, some of the biggest mistakes that e-commerce stores make. So we mentioned our client who sends out Skittles with a little thank you card, that's great, but obviously there is a financial implication to that but on email it's free. But I just think saying thank you is so important. It makes a customer feel so valued and much more likely to come back. And it surprised me this thank you flow we've got experienced it in the up for clients and when we first did I thought well let's give it a go. And the results really surprised me. People like to be appreciated and they like to be found. So I think that's great. And then again finally I'd say just touching on that personalization side of things. So blanket sending all of your emails to everybody on your email list is just kind of suicide for email marketing because you will get sent to spam folders, your deliverability will be awful, you'll have people proactively unsubscribing, which is just heartbreaking when you've spent time working on content.

So it's about taking that time out to separate your list, to segment your list and you can use your pop-up form to do that. So if you are a clothing brand, for example on your pop-up form you can select, you can have you to select whether or not they want to be emailed about women's clothing or men's clothing or children's clothing and straight away just with that one single additional kind of tick box on that pop up form, you have a whole new opportunity to be able to market to them via email in a really personalized way and some of the pushback we've had from clients before on that. So I'm going to preempt any questions from listeners is oh, but people don't giving me that much information on a popup form. Wrong, actually. And again, I think an assumption I might have made at the start, which that's true, but I think the consumer is starting to become more intelligent around what giving that kind of information actually means for the quality of the content that they're likely to receive from the brand.

And it also makes the consumer feel like they have a little bit of control. So you know we are marketed to 24-7 by brands left, right and center. We literally cannot escape it no matter if you don't allow cookies or whatever. We are being marketed all the time. But enabling users to be able to, from your website to be able to subscribe to certain types of email flows but not others or to specialize, I only want to hear about women's clothes, things like Mother's Day, I don't want to hear about Mother's Day, thank you very much for me it doesn't work. Stuff like that. It makes it that your customers feel like they have a little bit of control in this crazy marketing world that we literally can't escape. And that's something that a lot of us crave. So I think I'm throwing loads of things that you there, but I say they're my kind of four, five biggest top tips for email marketing for attention.

Richard:
A lot of things there, Emma.

Emma Derbyshire:
I know, sorry.

Richard:
So there's obviously given the customer those options to subscribe, subscribe to different elements of a list and segments. The reality is everybody that's listening, you can segment your customers and you should be, think about different product just that. And obviously in clothing it's quite easy. You've got male, female, if it's baby clothes, baby products, it's boy and girl usually. So there's basic segmenting like that. Then once you know that somebody's bought a certain size, you've got sizing segmentation around stock and offers on certain sizes or certain colors or you know, can get super granular. And so if you're not segmenting, there's the basics of segmenting but then you know can really, really layer in the different segments. But it's capturing that information at the front end. If you've just got one popup and that's it and it's just asking for name and email. Well hang on a minute. If you're, as we said, baby clothing, you probably want to know whether it's a boy or a girl. So then in you just a simple segment, then you've got a series of emails that are obviously boys clothes, a series of emails that are girls clothes. If it's a newborn, then an age element newborn, obviously he's going to want very different things to a one year old, two year old. And then when that child then becomes a toddler, if you then sell clothes through the years, you could have a five year sequence.

Emma Derbyshire:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's, I don't want any listeners to be put off by that cause it sounds like so much work but it's a lot of front work and you just have to have a clear strategy with it. So one thing at a time creates in your mind what that journey looks like and what those key options are. Think about your nav on your website. We do that a lot for our Google ad side of the business and the way we structure our ad campaigns. But it's not that dissimilar to how you might want to segment for your email lists And then okay, what options do they usually have? Think about, I don't know, a home decor company or what room are they decorating? Can we get that information out of them? Are they after in their lounge, are they doing their bedroom? Do they want to see bedsheets and stuff or is it just the lounge? Do they want more throws for the sofa?

And it just enables you to be so much more personalized with it so the user feels like they're being spoken to specifically. It's actually useful for them if there's a sale on bed bedsheets and stuff, they want to know that, especially with the economic situation at the moment. So I think it's just really important. Like you say, it sounds like so much work, it can be really overwhelming but putting that little bit of groundwork and at the start just makes such a huge difference as you've got your flows ticking along, working really hard for you.

Richard:
Yeah. Guys you need to be doing all this stuff. Simply said, obviously implementing it is another thing obviously depending on where you are in your journey, but obviously implementing these things can be simplified in a way by using them the right tech, having the right text there. What's your sort of go-to text there? What do you recommend?

Emma Derbyshire:
I have three from a 10. Am I allowed three?

Richard:
I'll give you three.

Emma Derbyshire:
Okay, thanks. So following on nicely from the email conversation is Klaviyo for email marketing. So obviously there's lots of different kind of email platforms out there. The reason why I would favor Klaviyo, multiple reasons. I think the intelligence that the platform has and the amount of data and insight that is able to provide you on your customers as they're using the website is absolutely key. So you know can have a look at not just when they've abandoned cart, but when they've abandoned browse. So you can create flows that try and reengage customers there. You can see when people are 90 days engaged, 180 days engaged, you can make sure that you're not sending too many emails to the same person. So that will flag if you've got them in a campaign but also in a flow that was sent 24 hours ago, it will remove them so they're not getting spammed.

And the reporting and the insights that you are able to pull from Klaviyo at a customer level enables you not only to create a far more personalized experience via Klaviyo, but also use that data to make wider business decisions. Where are people not converting across the website? Does that match up with your GA data? Okay, so what's the UX of that landing page or that category page or that product page look like? What's going wrong there? Why is that not a smooth user experience? This range, people are buying loads of this at the moment. Does that match up with sales data? Yes it does. Okay great, let's buy more of that in, let's use this to help with stock management. So that's mega and I think Klaviyo is the best in the market for that. And not only that, it offers SMS as well. So I haven't really spoken about SMS but that that's another fantastic thing for retention and being quite interrupting your customers at point of sale. So I think that's something else where you can put two in one with your email Martin, the SMS, which I think is great.

Richard:
I think, yeah, this gets me quite excited, listening to you because obviously we know from the clients we work with, the value that email and SMS and loyalty combined can add and we've seen up to 40 plus percent lift in a brand just from, I'd say just from obviously when you start diving in and you've got 15 flows running in various SMS and yeah, just a simple thing, like okay somebody's gone to the checkout but they didn't check out. But if they've put their mobile number in that checkout, you've got an abandoned cart SMS. So I've just gone, I've just about buying my 14th lot of coffee this month and I then my wife's like, but if I get an SMS while I'm out waiting for my son for his drumming lesson or whatever it may be, which three nights a week I'm taking my boys somewhere, one of my boys somewhere and I get an SMS on a Wednesday night saying, Hey what happened with the coffee? Oh God, yeah boom. One click, it's in the basket ready to go. How powerful is that? We talk from experience cause obviously we see many, many clients doing that with the email and the SMS combined.

Emma Derbyshire:
You hit the nail on the head there.

Richard:
Would you get, if you're a brand listening and you've not got that in place, I've just one flow potentially or two flows, SMS email combined on abandoned cart or abandoned add to cart.

Emma Derbyshire:
Correct. Yeah, it's huge. And you know, say nine out 10 times the people, the reason that people are abandoned at that point, it could be because there's too many kind of clicks to get through to payment, but most of the time it's because life has just got in the way. They've got to pick the kids up from school, their phones rang, you've got to take the kids out or whatever. So just reminding them, people don't find that annoying, they find it helpful and then they go back onto the site and everything that they put in the baskets already there. So you are on one click payment from that point as well, should be hopefully. So yeah, so I think Klaviyo definitely is the first.

Richard:
Yeah.

Emma Derbyshire:
Second would be Loyalty Lion. So they are one of our partners actually for loyalty schemes. So we've spoken about the importance of loyalty schemes and the appeal to the consumer of loyalty schemes.

So Loyalty Lion are a fantastic company that help you enable that within your business. So they will advise on what that structure might look like. So are you doing it on points, are you doing it on different levels? What tiers are you going to have? What do they look like? What are the requirements That actually has a really great plug in with Klaviyo. So I mean when you add an email, it's just mind blowing getting reminders that you've only got to spend X more amount until you get your next reward or you go into the next tier is insane.

But back to Loyalty Lion, they support you with the build out of what the page might look like on your website, make it really native so it looks completely at home on your website and just consult you through the whole process. So I think again similarly to setting up all these flows on email, loyalty schemes can seem a little bit overwhelming and like you say, people over complicate sometimes. So I think having a partner that just helps you along the way just to establish what that might look like is really helpful and Loyalty Lion, they're fantastic at that.

Richard:
Brilliant.

Emma Derbyshire:
And then thirdly, but certainly not least actually is pricing. So we haven't, again really touched on pricing all the much we've spoken about discounting and kind of coupon codes and stuff for retention, which can work really, really well. But no matter how great the content is that you are sending customers, how personalized your emails are, if you're completely pricing yourself out of the market because you're far too expensive, especially in today's kind of economic situation, no matter how loyal somebody perhaps once was, they're unlikely to stay that way.

So what pricing enables you to do is to analyze the pricing of your products versus every other brand that sells that product in online. And you can dynamically decide how you want your pricing to be shown and change in line with competitors. So say you always want your pricing really simplistically, you might always want your pricing Mr Skincare man to be 5% less than the most expensive, but no more than 10% cheaper than the least expensive. So you can set those parameters so when you go to sleep at night that you are not pricing yourself out of the market because you're not too expensive. So you're not losing customers that way, but also that you're not devaluing your products by being too cheap. So I think pricing's probably a bit of a curve ball there, but if you are not assessing pricing as part of your wider marketing strategy for e-com part of your retention strategy for e-com, then you actually should be in pricing of the perfect team to be able to support we have.

Richard:
With that one that most people don't talk about, they're probably as a business owner or you're, you are in the purchasing department of that business, you're obviously making sure you've got reasonably competitive prices. But in terms of using a tech, we've done a full episode with the guy with Birch from pricing car about a month ago now. And some of the things that when you think about it, if you are in a competitive industry where margin is tight or any industry really, but tight margin, the difference between one or two pounds but over thousands of orders a month, a year, it's huge. So if you think about a scenario where you're in a competitive niche and there's only maybe four or five of you've got products from one manufacturer stuff, a lot of supply issues this last, depending on the time of year, but a lot of different brands having challenges getting stock or here comes stores getting stock. So if you are the only one with stock for a certain set of items because your other 2, 3, 4 competitors are out of stock, what pricing would also do is monitor the fact that there's no stock over here and then potentially just raise your prices a little bit depending on the market availability. Now how smart is that?

Emma Derbyshire:
That's stupidly smart and that's when it gets exciting. I appreciate it is lots of plates to spin that if you get it right, the impact is just massive. It's exciting.

Richard:
Now it feels like this is set up a little bit, but it genuinely, I didn't know you were going to meant talk about pricing. I had a feel you might, but we didn't. So you will have already, as you're listening to this, had a little snippet to advertise pricing already listening to this. But just to reiterate that, there is actually a 30 day complete free trial as well that we've negotiated with pricing. So normally it's a lot less than that, seven days from them and then 50% off for the first three months thereafter. So it's like a bit of a no-brainer, implement pricing. If it works, you pay for it. If it doesn't you don't. But obviously if it'll pay for itself is the whole point and they demonstrate that in the dashboard.

Okay, so we've got Klaviyo, we've got Loyalty Lion, we've got pricing, three really good techs obviously we recommend amongst others, but they are ourselves right up there aren't they, as our top three in terms of improving retention orders, et cetera. So that's great. So we've talked a lot about our tech partners there and retention, but e-com one, obviously you've been with the business now for coming up to 18 months, I believe it is. So from your perspective, what would you want to share with the listeners about what's coming in our agency from your perspective over the next 12 months?

Emma Derbyshire:
Ooh, it's very exciting. We're putting a huge focus on retention this year. So we're practicing what we preach when we put together our sales strategy at the backend of last year. Obviously acquisition of new clients is fantastic, but growing our existing clients is where we are really focusing this year. So we offer strategy sessions with existing clients and new clients, but we're talking about retention here. So existing clients where we analyze not only the services that we offer, we don't just focus on making those the best that we can. Of course we do, but we look at other things. So our unique positioning in our network of e-com tech, we've just mentioned three of our partners, there are hundreds probably our partners that we have great relationships with. So we are able to add that little bit of additional value. Here you go guys, what you're struggling with personalization or you're struggling with this on your website, you're struggling with sending your products out, you're struggling with packaging. Okay, no worries, we can help you.

So I feel like we've really made tracks and we'll continue to this year in becoming even more of a trusted partner of clients. I don't know if you agree with that. You know mentioned earlier about giving gifts, we do little things like give clients books when they come in that will help them learn that's relevant to their story on where they're at in their brand journey, which I just think is amazing. So I say yeah, a real focus on retention. Our own email marketing is a real focus of mine and our marketing managers over this next 12 months to make sure again that we are practicing what we preach. We get loads of new business inquiries because we are ranking well on Google because our ads have served them well and that's great, we're practicing what we preach there.

But on the retention side, I think it's a real focus for us this year to do that and to grow our clients in that way. To reinforce the message of this entire podcast with our existing clients. We've taken on a lot of Klaviyo accounts from existing client base because we've been able to show them the value in that retention, the value in that email marketing. And not only are we taking them on, but we're seeing absolutely phenomenal results, which is just the most rewarding thing for us and encourages loyalty and retention from our clients towards us as well. So yeah, I'd say a real focus on that email marketing for clients and a real focus on just making sure that we are adding value to our existing client base as much as we possibly can. And I would say so far so good.

Richard:
And I know you are working on a series of events with our city marketer manager Carry Ann.

Emma Derbyshire:
Yeah.

Richard:
Obviously events is something that we love to get out there as a brand. There's five or six of the team obviously yourself, you head up that with Carrie Ann. Yeah, so what we say about our event calendar in the coming year?

Emma Derbyshire:
It's pretty good and it's really varied, which I think is great. So we've got really education events. So we are running master classes that are e-com specific, so we'll cover kind of all of our main services, including the retention piece and the email piece that we've spoken about today. Usually sponsored by one of our super cool partners. So you get to meet those tech partners too. And we also do our digital drinks, which is a little bit more laid back where everybody kind of comes and has a bit of a networking session with pizza and live music and I think it's great to have the balance. We're at a couple of kind of nationally recommended or acclaimed events this year too. So we've got the IRX in May, which I'm really excited about. I'll be speaking there if anybody come and say hello.

And then we've got the e-commerce expo in September again, and even in a bigger event, a new one for us, which is so exciting where we can go and just chat to retailers like the listeners that maybe have a bit of a pain point in retention or maybe they need some help with their SEO, with their Meta ads or something like that. So a really very calendar, but again, it includes opportunities for new prospects to come in, but also for existing clients to come and network with us to strengthen that relationship with our team for us to be able to share our knowledge even more, which is super, super important.

Richard:
Yeah, brilliant. I mean I think, is it ecom@one.com/events? I think it is.

Emma Derbyshire:
Yeah.

Richard:
That's the events that we are running as a brand, but also the events we're speaking at, the events that we are exhibiting at as a whole array from coming and having an evening with another a hundred e-com store owners, agency people in an evening beer and pizza. Then to a bit more of all right, let's do some work, have a day masterclass, a bit more of an intimate, maybe 10 merchants. Normally we normally have Circuit 10 merchants, a bit of a semi intensive but really cool day of learning and looking at all the different strands in your business. So I'd recommend you guys sort of check that out. Now I'd like to end, as everybody will know, if this is not your first episode, every episode with a book recommendation, what book would you recommend, Emma?

Emma Derbyshire:
I don't know if it's been recommended before, but I feel so passionate about it I'm going to go again with The Chimp Paradox, Steve Peters. So I read that book not long after it was published 10 years ago, so I was 20. I'd never really read a self-help book before. And the thing that blew my mind about that was the, and I guess it just reiterates that whole message of how impactful content can be is the impact that had on my life genuinely. So for those of you that aren't familiar with it, Steve Peters is actually known best for being a psychologist in kind of performance for sports. So he's trained loads of, I think he first worked with the British cycling team, but now he is worked with loads of Olympians on getting the best out of them if they're think their mental state is kind of pivoting their performance.

And it's all about being self-aware of the way that your brain is working. So in really simplistic terms, you split the brain into two parts. So you have your human brain and you have your chimp, and it's a little bit like the angel and devil on your shoulder. So the human side of your brain is very logical, evidence, fact based, and the chimp is far more emotionally led. And what the book encourages you to do is to be really aware when you are having conversations and interactions with people when you're talking to yourself, which is so important, which you are letting lead because nine out 10 times all the chimp points is more emotion, more aggression, whatever you are feeling. And to strive for more. It doesn't allow you to accept the facts, evidence based things. And just to take a step back and be like, hang on a minute, this is the situation that I'm in now.

I actually think I might reread it. The reason why I wanted to mention it was because I listened, he was on a Steven Bartlett's podcast about a month ago. So I definitely recommend listening to that podcast episode if you guys haven't. But I think rereading that now is a 30 year old when I'm so much more self-aware and I'm a lot more established in my career in friendships and relationships. It'd be really interesting. But I think it's crazy how reading books like that enable you to identify not just your own behavior but other people's as well.

Richard:
Brilliant.

Emma Derbyshire:
In the workplace it's great to be able to help deal with situations, identify how other people might be feeling and be able to control that. So yeah, I definitely recommend that for anyone that hasn't heard it.

Richard:
Well, we'll link that up. For those of you that haven't bought that or read that now, for those that want to find out more about what you're doing at eCom@One and eCom@One and yourself, what's the best way to reach out to you, Emma?

Emma Derbyshire:
I guess LinkedIn, really. So Emma Derbyshire LinkedIn or more than welcome to email me at emma@ecomone.com. I'll have a bit of a chat, so with anyone any time. So yeah, more than happy for anybody to reach out and have a chat about anything that we've discussed today.

Richard:
Well thanks for coming on the show and I'll see you very soon.

Emma Derbyshire:
Yes, I'll see you soon. Thank you.

Richard:
Bye.

Emma Derbyshire:
Bye.