E190: Brittany Jarman and Theo Roberts

Theo Roberts [00:00:04]:
Hello. Welcome to the eCom@One podcast. I'm not Richard Hill. I am Theo Roberts. Joining me today is our amazing client growth manager, Brit. In this episode, we'll be discussing everything from segmentation, personaliation, the rise of SMS in the UK, and so much more. If you enjoyed this episode, do me and Richard a favor, like the episode, and subscribe. Without further ado, let's get into it.

Theo Roberts [00:00:32]:
So, Britt, welcome to the Ecom at 1 podcast. How are you?

Brittany Jarman [00:00:35]:
I'm good. Thank you, Theo. How are you?

Theo Roberts [00:00:38]:
I'm good. Very busy, but all good. Good. So we're here today to talk about our favorite topic, CVO. So for those who don't know, CVO encompasses a wide range of, aspects, but you will probably be familiar with email marketing SMS, but it can also include on page optimization as well. So we'll be discussing mainly email marketing today. So, Brit, tell us how you got into email marketing.

Brittany Jarman [00:01:07]:
So I've kind of worked at a variety of different brands in house before I joined Econ 1. And I was working for a pet company at the time who really wanted to focus on retention and retaining their customers. So I'd heard from Klavier a few times, and after kind of their 3rd or 4th email, we thought, do you know what? These guys actually look really good. So we implemented Klaviyo, and I've never looked back since then. Kind of that's when I really started to get into email marketing, get into the nitty gritty of email strategy and that side of things. So that's how I kind of stumbled into email marketing.

Theo Roberts [00:01:50]:
Fantastic.

Brittany Jarman [00:01:51]:
How did you get into the email marketing world, Theo?

Theo Roberts [00:01:54]:
So I've been in marketing for over a decade, but the email marketing was new to me when I actually joined Ecom 1. So a lot of training, a lot of, learning at the start of my time at the agency, but I kind of live and breathe Klaviyo as everyone kind of knows now at this agency. And, yeah, I've just been able to see how it can work to help grow those brands and definitely nurture customers, which I think is so important and just showing that you care. Okay, Priya. So let's get started with the first question. Why should retailers run email marketing campaigns?

Brittany Jarman [00:02:35]:
So I think the main reason that people come to us wanting to run email marketing campaigns is for retention, things like that, making sure that they're looking after the customers that they've already got, which, yes, that is a really important part of it. But it's not may it's not necessarily the only reason to do it. So I think getting new people signed up to your email as well, new customers, a way of generating new customers, it can really help with that as well as retaining the ones that you've got. So, yeah, I think a mixture of good customer retention and getting new customers is one of the is, like, the the main reasons that retailers should do it. Obviously, with the retention, you can just retarget the people that you've got directly to their inboxes. So that's kind of a given, but you can have some really great incentives and reasons for people for new customers to sign up and come to your site. You might have a really good offer. So, say, sign up for 20% off, and that might be the difference between them coming to one retailer and another.

Brittany Jarman [00:03:43]:
So I think, yeah, there's probably 2 different angles you can go at as to why retailers should do email marketing. Yeah. What do you think?

Theo Roberts [00:03:51]:
I kind of always feel that a lot of businesses forget their existing customers. They kind of it's always about looking I think as a society, everyone's always wanting the next thing, the next it's like the next customer, When in reality, a really important part of business is to keep your existing customers satisfying your existing customers and building that loyalty. And I feel like email marketing is a great way to do that, not just by shoving products down customers' throats and by consistently sending them products products, but giving them that it was content focused pieces, really giving that information, really looking at the their journey as a customer and making sure that they're always feeling that value at every stage.

Brittany Jarman [00:04:37]:
Absolutely. I think that's one thing that retailers do need to remember. It's not every single email needs to be about getting the customer to buy a product. That doesn't need to be the end goal of every email. It can just be about giving them information that they need. So if they've bought a certain product and there's specific instructions of how to look after it and care for it and things like that. Sending them that information through an email can just really help kind of make their journey much more useful for the customer. So it's not it doesn't always need to be about sending an email and getting loads of sales from it.

Brittany Jarman [00:05:11]:
It just makes customers have a better experience with a retailer. So I suppose thinking about kind of there's those 3 different things. So retaining customers, getting new customers from email, and then also just making sure that their experience is really useful. So sending them useful information, kind of leads us nicely onto the next question of 3 kind of top your your top tips for generating profit through email. So I know that's not necessarily always the main goal, but it needs to be profitable. It needs to be worth its while. It's it's it takes a lot of resource, a lot of time. So, obviously, you wanna make sure that you're seeing the results from it.

Brittany Jarman [00:05:53]:
So what's kind of your top three tips for generating profit from from email marketing?

Brittany Jarman [00:05:59]:
Well, the first one is something that I've done quite recently, and that was building a reward flow using Klaviyo. So, again, that's giving customers an incentive, but they have to work for that incentive. They've got to become loyal and become that repeat customer. But it's important that when you have those repeat repeat customers, making sure, again, yeah, you're rewarding customers for their loyalty. So a lot of ecommerce sites, a lot of businesses, what they are doing, they go to loyalty platforms, and there are some brilliant loyalty platforms out there. But something that I've done is been able to build a flow. We'll obviously, we're in an economic crisis as a country, and a lot of people are really finding that they want the revenue, they want the profit, but without having to see increased expenditure. So the great thing about Klaviyo is that I've been able to build that reward flow that really looks at that customer journey from their first purchase, 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th, And then at those points, really, yeah, rewarding those customers.

Brittany Jarman [00:07:06]:
Yeah. I think it makes people feel special as well. It makes them feel like they're a part of Clubcard points as an example. You feel like you're part of it. You feel like you're part of Clubcard points as an example. You feel like you're part of it. You feel like you're part of something, and you get a reward for using it. So it just incentivizes you to even if I need something that's not necessarily groceries, I'll think, oh, you know what? I'm gonna go to Tesco because if I can use my club card and get club card points and get club card price so when you're offering people incentives and rewards, it makes them feel like they're part of something, and it just makes them come back to you.

Brittany Jarman [00:07:43]:
So doing that through email, with your own business is a surefire way to get people to come back. That's for sure.

Theo Roberts [00:07:51]:
Definitely. And I think, again, looking at your existing customers, it's important to get that data from that existing customers and keep getting rich data that you can use for your campaigns. So a lot of businesses, do the sign up form to acquire the new customers, but then they don't use sign up forms or forms, let's say, to acquire data from existing customers. So

Brittany Jarman [00:08:13]:
Absolutely.

Theo Roberts [00:08:13]:
Have that sign up form for the new customers, the acquisition piece, but then also have that additional, form to get data such as birthday, get data such as, what brands do they do the customers refer. Get that information, and then you can use get that personal personalized data to then create personalized campaigns, segmenting, your customer base and sending them the most relevant campaigns. I'd say that was point number 2. Mhmm. And I'd say that a third tip, it would be really to look at the data. So the great thing about Klaviyo, for example, is that you send the campaign out, and then you can look at link activity, deliverability of the campaign, and then allow that information to then lead your strategy going forward.

Brittany Jarman [00:09:00]:
100%. I agree. I think, yeah, what you said is about getting data from your existing customers that signed up as well, I think that's really important and it's something that just forget to do. They think, oh, yeah. We've got them signed up now. It's almost the same as when you think, oh, yeah. We've got them as a customer now, and forget to actually then communicate with them after, which is why you'd get email marketing in the first place. But remember to keep asking and gathering information from those people that have signed up as well.

Brittany Jarman [00:09:28]:
And you can do that not necessarily through a sign up form. You could do that through an email as well. You could have a survey within an email, and it just helps you make sure that everything you'll send to them is so relevant to what they're looking for, what they're shopping for, what their kind of intention is with you as a retailer. Because then if you're sending them something that's not really what they're interested in, they might unsubscribe. Whereas if everything they're getting is really, really tailored to what they're looking for because you've taken the time to ask them the questions, then they're just gonna become even more loyal to you as a company. So

Theo Roberts [00:10:02]:
Yeah. I agree with that. Terms of the sign up form, what data I also gave a few examples of, like, birthdays, brands. Is there anything that you'd like to include data to?

Brittany Jarman [00:10:13]:
I think it does vary from retailer to retailer depending on what you stock. It can be quite I think making sure it's really relevant to what you're selling. So let's say you sell gym products, ask what kind of gym goer they are. Have they only just started going to the gym? Are they really advanced at the gym? That kind of thing. Because you can then tailor that content based on their their level of knowledge. If they're kind of into if you're an outdoorsy brand, what type of outdoor activities do they get involved in? Do they do hiking? Do they do running? That kind of thing. Do they do rowing? Anything like really just find out exactly what they do. So I think it's quite it really depends on what the product is that you're selling.

Brittany Jarman [00:11:01]:
Yeah. Just making sure that you really find out what their interests are. Because if somebody's interested in something, they're going to be invested in it straight away. So I think really honing in on that on the customer's interest is is really important.

Theo Roberts [00:11:15]:
I really like what you're saying there because it's really emphasizing the human element of it all and how to really be personal, you've got to connect to the people behind the screens. So, yeah, really find it asking for that information that's personal to who they are and where they are in their journey that's linked to what your the products you're selling. I think, yeah, very important, very vital.

Brittany Jarman [00:11:40]:
Yeah. 100%.

Theo Roberts [00:11:42]:
So in addition to tips, are you seeing any trends lately in MCVO, so in email marketing, in SMS marketing?

Brittany Jarman [00:11:51]:
I think a big one that I'm seeing is competitions for signing up. So I think people have become fatigued by 10% off. Sign up and get 10% off or sign up and get £10 off. So I have been seeing a lot more competition based, incentives to get people to sign up. And when I say that it's not necessarily, sign up and win one of your products or something like that because they're probably gonna buy a product anyway. So it's more, like, quite highly desirable things like win an Apple Watch, something like that. And to some retailers, they might think, oh gosh. But an Apple Watch is so expensive.

Brittany Jarman [00:12:33]:
I'm not gonna buy one of them. But if you actually weigh up the the cost of giving a 100 customers 10% off or £10 off, you could end up spending more.

Theo Roberts [00:12:45]:
Yeah.

Brittany Jarman [00:12:46]:
Than buying 1 Apple Watch a month and giving that away as a price. So in terms of profitability for retailers as well, these competitions, it seems like, oh my gosh. Yeah. I will enter that. Sign up to enter. And it's highly desirable, But, actually, it's gonna cost the retailers less to do that as well. It'll be way less on, kind of, your top line than giving 10% off to every single person that signs up. So I have been seeing a lot more of that recently.

Brittany Jarman [00:13:16]:
And I think as a customer, from a customer perspective as well, I find that more engaging than I think almost now if I see sign up for 10% off or something like that, my brain skims past it because I see it all the time. And you want customers want more than that. It's almost like they don't that doesn't really make anybody feel special anymore.

Theo Roberts [00:13:39]:
Yeah.

Brittany Jarman [00:13:39]:
Because everybody does it. And for some people, it does work. I think you need to AB test because for some retailers, that may work a lot better than a competition. So, obviously, do what works. But, I have been seeing a lot more of the competitions. What have you been seeing?

Theo Roberts [00:13:56]:
A few things. I I agree. I haven't seen a lot more competitions there, and it makes perfect sense with what you're saying about profitability. And, I well, I in addition to that, I'm also seeing, a rise in SMS being used in the industry. So, again, if you have a flow, for example, in Klaviyo, so you could have an abandoned cart flow, I'm seeing you can then split okay. If customers have subscribed to SMS as well, instead of sending that second SMS and email, send an SMS as an alternative because they do say that SMS, you get that click through. You get that interactivity because everyone has their phone on them and a message is more instant than an email. So I'm seeing slightly that increase in the UK a lot more.

Theo Roberts [00:14:43]:
So I'm seeing more marketing around the SMS, is obviously a big shift in the industry because I always say I feel like in America the SMS has really taken off but slowly and short just slowly but surely I'm seeing that more and more in the UK.

Brittany Jarman [00:14:58]:
Yeah. I think in America, it's very normal to get SMS, from companies all the time. Whereas in the UK, we still tend to see it as quite intrusive. But I think that's that is more to do with the fact that people probably aren't making those SMSs relevant enough to what that customer wants. It might be totally irrelevant, and they're thinking, I'm not interested in this. And then, yes, that will feel intrusive. But if it's really relevant, say if you have been on a website, you've abandoned a cart, and you get a message saying, check out now and with an offer or something, that's really relevant, and you're probably not. It's not going to feel as intrusive.

Brittany Jarman [00:15:37]:
So I think the key to SMS probably is to just make sure that it's super relevant to what they're what they're doing on your site at that time. Not too relevant in a way that it creeps people out, But that's just gonna make them think, oh, yeah. Actually. Whereas if it's something totally random, like, about a category that they've never looked at before, they've never shown an interest in, and then they get an SMS about it, they're probably gonna think, oh gosh. I'm gonna unsubscribe to that because I don't care.

Theo Roberts [00:16:07]:
Yeah.

Brittany Jarman [00:16:08]:
So, yeah, I think making it relevant will definitely make people in the UK see it as less intrusive.

Theo Roberts [00:16:14]:
For sure. I feel like with that as well, I get a lot of SMS free from food delivery or, like, that kind of industry, that market. Yeah. And for some reason, I don't feel that's as intrusive. Maybe because that's just the nature we all need to eat. I don't know but I feel like, for actual I don't get a lot of SMS from other markets in the UK currently.

Brittany Jarman [00:16:36]:
No.

Theo Roberts [00:16:37]:
I think it's gonna grow, though. If there was an industry in mind, do you feel like for you personally, perhaps, like is there something is it based on your interest where you would want to receive marketing, like, for stores that you kind of are loyal to, or would you be open to maybe receiving SMS from a brand that is quite new to you?

Brittany Jarman [00:17:01]:
I think I'd be open to receiving it from a brand that's new to me if it's a brand that I've signed up and I'm really interested in them and I'm I'm kind of intrigued by this new brand. Whereas if it's a brand where it's a bit random and I've not actually shown any interest in them, then I would be like, why have you messaged me? But, again, I think it just depends on the on that relevance piece. If it's a brand that's new to me and they've messaged me, like, hi, say like, to acknowledge that I'm new, that kind of thing, then that's really relevant. And I think, oh, that's really nice. They've acknowledged almost like a a welcome series, but as an SMS, that's then really relevant. Whereas if they then start messaging me with, like, hello. We've got a sale on. Shop now.

Brittany Jarman [00:17:43]:
I'd be thinking, woah. I've only just found you. I've only just signed up. I'm kind of still exploring and learning about you. Because people don't always make a purchase as soon as they find a company. They they might sit on it for a few weeks, wait until they've kind of seen a little bit more of what they're about before they actually order. So as long as it's really relevant to me and my journey at that point, then, yeah, I would be open to it.

Theo Roberts [00:18:06]:
I really, really want to test SMS for back in stock. It's not something I've done currently, but I just feel there's a way to do it that you you gotta make it seem like it's coming directly from the business owner where it's like hybrid. Just letting you know that the product that you recently, inquired about is now back in stock. Just wanting to just share the link with you, so you can explore more. Something a bit really, that seems like it's from a person, not just buy this now. Here's the link. Really?

Brittany Jarman [00:18:40]:
Yeah.

Theo Roberts [00:18:41]:
Make it seem like it's so make it seem it is. Have it so it's got that human element to it because you are as you are when you were sending text messages out or SMS messages out, it is the owner. It is the company. So you want it to feel like that. You don't want it to feel like this is just a company mass sending something. You wanna obviously connect to the customer with what they want, really make it personal.

Brittany Jarman [00:19:07]:
Oh, yeah. I think that would work really well, especially if you've if you've subscribed to be notified when it's back in stock. Sometimes I'll not see the email, whereas if it comes through as an SMS, I would go on and buy it straight away.

Richard Hill [00:19:20]:
Yeah.

Brittany Jarman [00:19:20]:
If if you've subscribed to something, obviously really want it. Like, if you subscribe to be notified when it's back in stock, you obviously really want it, and you you want to buy it when it's back in stock. So sometimes you can get an email about it, not really look at your emails because I don't have email notifications on. So I have if I'm expecting an email about something or I've subscribed to find out when something's back in stock, I'll check I'll go on my email app and check it. Whereas so I won't actually get the notification. So as for me, an SMS would work even better just because if I have my email notifications on, my, my phone would be going off constantly with different brands emailing me all day long. So I don't even have them on, so I would actually miss that. So SMS if I received an SMS about that, it would make me go straight to the website and buy it.

Brittany Jarman [00:20:08]:
So I think that would work really well. That kind of leads us on quite nicely to the next question, which is what do you think is the biggest kind of trick that retailers are missing out on? What are they not doing that's really obvious? You're like, oh my gosh. Why are people not doing this?

Theo Roberts [00:20:30]:
I think a lot of, businesses are still sending campaigns email campaigns out to their entire email list. So Yeah. Kind of what we've just said about how you're not making it personal. You're not putting relevant content in front of customers. And I feel like and I guess you want a campaign. You might make it quite a broad campaign where you're discussing a range of products, a variety of products, right, variety of categories you have. However, I feel that from what I've seen from the results in terms of that open rate, that click rate, that, revenue rate, you you just you just see that when you send a campaign out to a smaller segment based on what they want to see, you see all of those metrics increase. You see a more positive trajectory whereas, yeah, sending that email to your whole list, obviously, it's less time consuming, of course, but the one thing I'd like to emphasize to anyone listening is the importance of really, planning carefully and making and really segmenting as part of your email and SMS strategy.

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Brittany Jarman [00:22:17]:
Yeah. I agree. Absolutely. I mean, we see it time and time again where retailers are sending out the whole newsletter, which you think, oh, yeah. Great. I'm gonna hit more inboxes. But, actually, you'll be hitting inboxes where it's totally irrelevant for them. Especially if you've got a really broad product range, you may have customers that only come on for one particular category and that's it.

Brittany Jarman [00:22:45]:
So if you're sending them emails about other categories, yes, you might be thinking, oh, but they might then be enticed. But if they're not interested, they're not interested. And in the end, they're just going to unsubscribe. So I would say the best thing to do in that instance is have different kind of different segments for people that are interested in different categories. So with Klaviyo, the great thing about it is it tracks kind of what they're doing on the website. So you could create categories, not necessarily sorry, segments, not necessarily on customers who have bought from certain categories, but also who have just been on the site and viewed products in different categories. So if they viewed it, they've they've shown an interest. So you could then if they've only viewed one category, you can then send them content really personalized and tailored to that specific category that they're interested in.

Brittany Jarman [00:23:39]:
And if you've got another flow or something set up for another category, if they do go and browse that category one day, they'll then fall into that flow anyway and they'll start receiving it. So as they show interest in things, they'll just fall into different places and different segments

Theo Roberts [00:23:53]:
Yeah.

Brittany Jarman [00:23:53]:
Instead of trying to force it on people being like, oh, but we really want you to actually be interested in this. Sometimes sometimes that works and you can kind of bring to their attention other things, especially if it's closely related to a category that they're interested in. If it's really related to that category, then great. That that works. But if it's something completely unrelated, they may naturally fall into it anyway. If you've got it all segmented and you've got that strategy in place where you've got different things being triggered from people going on different areas of the website, they could naturally fall into it anyway. So, yeah, I think I agree with you completely there. Making sure everything is really segmented and you're not just blasting things out to the whole newsletter, which isn't good for your deliverability, and your metrics like that anyway because you can get really you can have people just not even open them.

Brittany Jarman [00:24:45]:
So your open rate will look really poor. You have people unsubscribing. Your bounce rate may look really poor because if they're constantly receiving an email from you but not opening it, they're eventually just gonna bounce. So it's just not good for any of your key metrics either.

Theo Roberts [00:25:02]:
Yeah. I think as well, to support what you're saying, when you really when you have a category or categories on your website and maybe you have a range a wide range of products, that you're selling to customers, a customer may they may have purchased from you in the past because they found a backpack on your website, but then you may also sell, tents. And just because you bought a backpack, you may have no interest in camping. So sending content around 10s is completely kind of irrelevant to that customer base. So, again, despite what you're saying, personalization segmentation, it just really supports with that.

Brittany Jarman [00:25:44]:
Yeah. 100%. You could be barking up the wrong tree, and just actually put them off. So and then lose them completely. So yeah.

Theo Roberts [00:25:53]:
So, Britt, for anyone listening who may say email marketing doesn't work, what would you say to them?

Brittany Jarman [00:26:02]:
Firstly, I would say to them, what platform are you using? Because it does make a huge difference. Some platforms only allow you to send the whole newsletter and they don't allow you to segment, which there you go straight away. Maybe you need to look at a different platform that's a little bit more intelligent. So I think that will be my first question is what what platform are you using? Because it does make a difference. And, obviously, we would then suggest Klaviyo because the segmentation that Klaviyo offers is just incredible. And also, like, the design, it you can you can make the design look really great. But, yeah, I think my first question would be, what platform are you using? What would what would you what would you say?

Theo Roberts [00:26:51]:
I think well, we we both work in CVO and email marketing. We both know it does work. So I would be just I'd be inquisitive if someone said that. I'd want to know, like you said, what platform they're currently using. I'd want to know, are they segmenting? I'd want to know, how are you connecting with your past customers or your existing customers if you aren't doing email, SMS, or CBO. It's just a great way to connect with your customer base, as we've mentioned, because they've also provided you with that information. They want that open to you contacting them to keep that that, conversation as a conversation, but keep that relationship growing.

Brittany Jarman [00:27:32]:
Mhmm.

Theo Roberts [00:27:33]:
And it's important for you to nurture it. So I would say for existing customers, I'd say CVO definitely is where you need to go in order to build and support and strengthen those relationships.

Brittany Jarman [00:27:45]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think connecting making sure that they're connecting with all of those people that have already signed up and are part of their list as well is super, super important. So for my next question, Theo, can you tell us about a campaign that you've worked on that has improved results for a retailer with regard to email marketing?

Theo Roberts [00:28:11]:
Yes. So kind of from what we said earlier about not just having product focused campaigns, last for one of my clients last month, we did a campaign around, Lyme disease awareness. So, obviously, we weren't it was about it was the month. It was them the month Lyme disease awareness month. So we just wanted to obviously inform customers so it's relevant to that market and, obviously, just talk discuss all the ways that customers can stay protected. Obviously, customers health is more more important than any product that we're trying to sell. So just sharing that information, it was one of the most successful campaigns in terms of revenue because I feel customers just want to feel like and want to know that you're not just wanting money from them. You're wanting to make sure that, obviously, they're having great experiences.

Theo Roberts [00:28:57]:
They're wanting to know that you are there to support them. And I think by just giving them that content to information that is important to them, it's just gonna really help nurture them.

Brittany Jarman [00:29:11]:
Absolutely. I agree. I've seen some in different instances where you've got kind of, say, a month's worth of campaigns where you're looking at the results. And let's say 50% of those campaigns are about new products, new ranges, tips on how to kind of use a product, but really you've put in there now look at these, buy these, that kind of thing. And then the other 50% of them are just kind of links to blogs, really helpful information, that kind of thing. And I have noticed that those campaigns that are just links to useful guides, useful blogs, just giving them information, not pushing them towards any type of product generates more revenue than the campaigns that were saying buy this product. And, again, I think it just like you said, if you're helping the customer, it's gonna make them think, oh, do you know what? Actually, I really trust these people. I'm just gonna have a look on the website.

Brittany Jarman [00:30:14]:
And then they end up purchasing something anyway. It just makes them trust you more. It makes value know that they're valued by you. Whereas, if you're just sending them an email saying buy this or look at this new thing we've got, buy it, they're probably just gonna be like, well, no. I don't really want it.

Theo Roberts [00:30:30]:
Yeah.

Brittany Jarman [00:30:30]:
Whereas if you're just giving them information that's really useful for them and their journey and maybe products that they've bought in the past. They might just think, oh, I'll just have a little look on that website again. And they'll just buy something anyway. So I think, yeah, I agree a 100%. I've seen exactly the same where giving people advice and help and showing that you care about them does actually generate more revenue sometimes than shoving a product down their throat.

Theo Roberts [00:30:57]:
Yeah. Definitely.

Brittany Jarman [00:31:00]:
In

Theo Roberts [00:31:00]:
terms of we spoke about Klaviyo a few times now, during our chat and we spoke about the great, opportunities that are available within Klaviyo from segmentation, making the campaigns and emails more personal, what would you say to anyone who was considering Klaviyo or or how would you recommend Klaviyo to, potential prospective users?

Brittany Jarman [00:31:24]:
So the thing with Klaviyo is you can make money whilst you sleep. So their flows are so kind of there is no limit to what you can do with them really. There's so we have so many ideas, don't we? And we just think, oh my gosh. There's so much we could do, with different kind of retailers. So I think the fact that you can just be making money whilst you sleep, you can have triggers, things going out left, right, center that's really relevant. So it's guaranteed to be kind of the customer's going to find it interesting. So you're always gonna have revenue coming in from when using Klaviyo. Whereas when you're using other platforms, you may only be able to send campaigns.

Brittany Jarman [00:32:09]:
They might not have the option to do flows. So you've got to always make sure you're sat there making a campaign, making sure you've got time to make a campaign every week or depending some people send campaigns every day. I've spoken to retailers before that actually sit there every day and make a new campaign every single day, schedule it, send it out. Whereas they could just be making one new flow a week and that flow's set then, that's gonna trigger that flow could trigger every day on its own, and you've only had to sit and make it once. Obviously, you need to go back and update and refresh the design, but you don't need to do that regularly. Maybe, like, depending on how often you change your imagery and things like that. Maybe if you've got some really nice new imagery, go in and just change it, that kind of thing. If you maybe change your style a little bit, every you might only need to go in 3 or 4 times a year and just update the feel and look of the flows instead of sitting there every day and making thinking of a new idea and a new campaign.

Brittany Jarman [00:33:11]:
And it's just you can just be revenue coming in from all angles all the time.

Theo Roberts [00:33:17]:
Yeah. The portfolio feature within Klaviyo, it's just me it's gonna be a game changer. Now I mentioned earlier the reward flow, and I'm gonna be able to clone that, flow from one client account to another. So it's gonna save time. It's gonna be able to allow it's gonna allow us to to deliver that flow to all our clients so so much quicker and easier, allowing them to, as you mentioned, make more money quicker. So Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely, that has opened up the opportunities, and I feel like, again, it's just gonna help support your clients and support that growth.

Brittany Jarman [00:33:55]:
Absolutely. I think another great thing about Claytho is if you're kind of a marketing manager or something at a retailer and you're a one man band, which a lot of marketing managers can be kind of on their own having to juggle lots of different things. Klaviyo, their support system is they are so helpful. Any questions that you've got, if there's something that you're just trying to set something up, it's not quite working or you're not quite sure why something's maybe not populating with with customers. If you just go on to their online chat, their support team are so, so helpful. They'll either send you a guide, which their guides are so easy to digest, really clear, simple instructions, although sometimes they'll just do it for you. They'll be like, oh, we fixed that sorted now, or they'll give you step by step. They'll they'll stay on the line.

Brittany Jarman [00:34:42]:
They'll help you through it until it's been sorted, and they are so helpful in that respect. So you're not kind of on your own just trying to figure out how to use this platform. It's so user friendly anyway. Most of the time, you just know what you're doing with it. But there's a few things where you think, oh, why is that not quite working? And they're just always they're so, so helpful.

Theo Roberts [00:35:01]:
Yeah. And I think as well, if you're thinking of Klaviyo, for your business, obviously, Klaviyo has so many wonderful and great integrations with ecommerce platforms like Shopify, ecommerce. But the beauty with it is that if you have a custom built website, you can still run Klaviyo successfully just as if you did have Shopify or BigCommerce. So I've recently been able to set up a KVO for a client on a bespoke platform. And, yeah, it's obviously a bit more work and, obviously, working with the dev team to make sure that all the code's implemented. But as you mentioned, all the literature is there to help support you do that. It is very simple and straightforward. And again, it doesn't matter what type of business you are, Klaviyo can really do wonders for you.

Brittany Jarman [00:35:50]:
Absolutely. Okay. So I think our final question is a book recommendation. Doesn't necessarily have to be related to email marketing. Just any book that you think is worthwhile our guests reading our our listeners. Sorry.

Theo Roberts [00:36:11]:
I feel like anyone who heard my previous podcast knows that I'm a big fan of So another recommendation will be Trevor Noah. I'm not sure if you know who Trevor Noah is.

Brittany Jarman [00:36:20]:
Oh, I'm not. I don't know who that is.

Theo Roberts [00:36:22]:
He was a of The Daily Show, and you might recognize him. He's a comedian. He's done a few Netflix stand up, shows. But, he's was born in South Africa, and, he's mixed race. So he has a his father's white. His mom's black. But growing up in South Africa, where obviously everything has historically was the apartheid and segregation. His story of growing up was it's just fascinating.

Theo Roberts [00:36:45]:
I just really love discovering people in their lives. So, yeah, that's my recommendation. What about you?

Brittany Jarman [00:36:50]:
Oh, nice. Mine would be The Jelly Effect by Andy Bounds. It's just a really great book in terms of making you really think about how you communicate with people, not necessarily in terms of your career or anything like that, just in general life and communicating with people really well, showing people that you are actually listening to them, that kind of thing. It's just really useful to remember in daily life, but also would be quite useful with doing email marketing and making sure that what you're communicating to people is actually gonna kind of get through to them. So yeah. That will be my recommendation.

Theo Roberts [00:37:31]:
Thank you.

Brittany Jarman [00:37:37]:
If you'd like to find out more about email marketing, SMS, and Klaviyo, we are running an event really soon at Klaviyo HQ. So sign up via the link below and join us on the day.