E198: Alex Myatt

Richard Hill [00:00:04]:
Hi there. I'm Richard Hill, the host of eCom@One and welcome to episode 198. And we had to get on Alex Myatt. We taught persuasion, copy, copywriting, direct response and the power of words. We chat how can direct response copywriting increase sales for e commerce stores, key elements of high converting product descriptions and how they can be optimized for direct response, creating urgency in e commerce copy without coming across too pushy. That's usually the problem. And absolutely lots more in this one that you need to dive into. Now, if you enjoyed this episode, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this episode.

Richard Hill [00:00:41]:
So you're always the first to know when a new episode is released. Now let's head over to this fantastic episode. Welcome to the podcast, Alex. How are you doing?

Alex Myatt [00:00:52]:
I'm very well. Thank you, Richard. How are you?

Richard Hill [00:00:54]:
I'm pretty good. Pretty good. So I think before we get into it, which I am very, very, very, very excited about this particular episode because it is a topic that although I'm not an expert, I understand the value, and I am completely bought into the value. So I know the listeners, they should be flipping listening to this one. But before we get into the nitty gritty, can you let the listeners know how you got into the world of ecommerce? So bring and bring us up to current times, what you're doing.

Alex Myatt [00:01:19]:
Absolutely. So, as the topic of the podcast is about, largely, I started in copywriting, which for anyone who doesn't know is effectively just writing words to to sell things. Yeah. That was when I was actually when I was 15, I I did a bit of copywriting for a local dog rescue. I just end up doing leaflets. And because I was young, they they gave me social media, they thought. You'll know. So I started doing that.

Alex Myatt [00:01:42]:
And I just started to to love it. And that's where my passion for advertising generally started. Then throughout the years, started doing freelancing. By the time I was 18, alongside my 9 to 5, I started to do content writing on the side. Decided that I just try and get into it without any degrees or anything. Eventually, I bugged enough people that I got hired a few times Yeah. Started an agency just not really knowing what I was doing. And then 5 years later, I'd worked with Unilever and big FMCG brands, a lot of direct to consumer stuff.

Alex Myatt [00:02:16]:
I'd been lucky enough to start my own e commerce businesses. Nowadays, I'm an ecom consultant, so I work with, a lot of businesses doing basically upwards of $1,000,000 a year in revenue, anything up to kind of $500,000,000, and running my own stores as well. So it's it's been a bit of a ride, but it all started with, with copywriting and and just being a general geek about anything that that brought money in really. Fantastic.

Richard Hill [00:02:40]:
So, obviously, you got that first piece of work. You're what? 15, 16 years old? Mhmm. Yeah. So so the hustle springs to mind. You sort of get out there thinking, well, I really gotta take I'm interested in the in the copywriting, and I quite like using the word persuasion when we talk about copywriting. Yeah. I think, there's a you know, I've got quite a catalog of books at home, which I'm sure we'll we'll touch on, and it's it's a fascinating topic. But before we get into it, so you're sort of 15, 16, got a couple of sort of local companies that you sort of approached that I'd I'd love to help you with this.

Richard Hill [00:03:12]:
And I think I think naturally, oh, 50 year old, they now had to log on to Facebook, Meta. Exactly. Started doing the sort of socials for these guys and then started creating, what, adverts or creating product descriptions? What's the Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:03:24]:
I mean, my my first, my first great love was actually, leaflets and through the door leaflets. So the the first thing I did for the for dog rescue was, was literally dropping flyers. And it was amazing because, really early on, without realizing it, I was starting to learn the, the value of direct response, which, effectively just meant that I was sending one leaflet out. And I noticed that we got donations in of, say, £200 that that week. Yeah. And then I'd send another leaflet out the next week, and it'd only get £50. And I'd say, okay, what was different between those 2? And I'd started to kind of pick up on, well, these kind of headlines seem to work, or these kind of images seem to be, you know, drawing people in. I I didn't I I wish I could pretend I was a genius at that age, but I wasn't.

Alex Myatt [00:04:06]:
I I didn't really understand the value of it at the time. Looking back, I now realize it was the seeds of what I knew to become threat response copywriting, which is kind of, as you've just hit the nail on the head, suasion. That's what all good copywriting is about. You know, that's it's not it shouldn't be about fluff. It shouldn't be about pleasing the person who's writing it or sounding good. It should only be measured by how much money or how many leads or how many conversions Yes. Has the piece of copy brought in. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:04:36]:
So so yeah. That that's kind of where it all started. And what I found was the more that I gravitated towards revenue, for businesses, so for leaflets or for Facebook ads, anything that would bring money in, that made getting jobs far easier. Because it's much easier to persuade a business owner, hey, I could potentially bring in an extra few £100 a week

Richard Hill [00:04:58]:
Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:04:59]:
With these leaflets that have been proven to work than it is by saying, oh, I would like to make your brand sound a bit nicer or be more in in your image. So that that's always been a driving philosophy for me. So you

Richard Hill [00:05:10]:
copyrighted your own pitch process, in effect?

Alex Myatt [00:05:13]:
Effectively. Again, I I wish I could say it was all planned, and I wish I could say, oh, I knew what I was doing. But, I I I got lucky. I failed a hell of a lot. Yeah. You know, I I I did things where I would I worked for free for local businesses, and I said, oh, yeah. It will really work. And if it works, you can pay me.

Alex Myatt [00:05:29]:
And just nothing came in. And I've I've wasted, you know, £500 of their, like, purchasing budget. But I think you need all that, because it really does you know, baptism by fire, I think, at a young age, at the start of your career really helps.

Richard Hill [00:05:40]:
So when you say flyers, you know, I I that sort of resonates with me when when we think about more traditional print advertising. Obviously, there's various things we could talk about here. But I think, obviously, our listeners now, you know, ecom stores are I assume 99% of the people listening right now, they're ecom stores. You know, what would you say to those guys about print marketing, direct response with print, and ecom? You know, what's the opportunity and maybe even still?

Alex Myatt [00:06:08]:
Yeah. Print is a, it's such an underutilized arm of of any business, ecommerce particularly, for a few reasons. For example, there there there's a bunch of companies, one springs to Michael Postpilot,

Richard Hill [00:06:21]:
may mainly operate in the US,

Alex Myatt [00:06:22]:
but they're they're in the UK as well. Yeah. And they help people run direct mail campaigns. Great great company as well. And what you find that is when you start running those campaigns, just sending out to where your target demographic is, flyers or post or, you know, nice kind of first class, you know, thick envelopes, they open them because they're not used to getting that kind of stuff. Yeah. You know, the the amount of junk mail people get now actually isn't much. It's not they don't people aren't getting it as much as they used to.

Alex Myatt [00:06:51]:
You know, it peaked in the early 2000. Yeah. We're at a point now where if you get something in the post, especially if it's got your name on it and it doesn't look like advertising immediately, you're gonna open it. Absolutely. Interesting. Yeah. So I think there's absolutely an opportunity there. And I I I'd really encourage the listeners to if you've not tried it, just have a go.

Alex Myatt [00:07:09]:
Just allocate a a a few £1,000 of budget and just give it a go. You can work with, agencies who specialize in doing direct mail, and they'll help you, you know, pick out the target audience, etcetera. But the other opportunity is partnering with similar brands. So whenever they, post something, you know, someone buys a product in that packaging

Richard Hill [00:07:29]:
Yeah. Put a leaflet

Alex Myatt [00:07:30]:
Yeah. Put a slip. And that, people really, really underestimate the power of it. Mhmm. The the the big one that springs to mind is the, the Virgin Wine Club. They do it with so many different companies. You know, I've I've had them approach me for a couple of businesses I've worked with before. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:07:44]:
But it works. It really works for them. Yeah. Because, you know, if you're sending out a, you know, a party box or cheeses or something that's a bit bit more kind of high class, oh, there's a wine club voucher in there. It gets me a a free bottle. Why not try it?

Richard Hill [00:07:56]:
It's something we've always done, and we continue to do. I literally, say, signed a check yesterday or made a online payment to our print company for a physical, what we refer to as lumpy mail, I think that's Yeah. Yeah. For invites to the 10th October, the 200th podcast. You know, and we found it, you know, that type of process, as you alluded to, you know, if somebody gets something in the post, what's the open rate compared to an email?

Alex Myatt [00:08:24]:
A 100%. Not a 100% open rate. I mean, I'm agreeing with you. Yeah. But but yeah. Like, the is just the fact that especially when you make something not look like advertising, which the best advertising doesn't look like advertising. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:08:37]:
Regard digital war print. So as soon as you have a letter in front of you, you gotta open it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But I I don't I don't wanna focus too much on on direct mail because, you know, that that that was that was a big part in the early days for me. But, you know, 90% of what I do now is is digital. And, I I why I really wanna highlight because I think that there's a misconception about what direct response is. You know, we've we've we've mentioned it a couple of times.

Alex Myatt [00:09:03]:
People have this this preconception that direct response equals old style, you know, early direct mail days of advertising. And that that's not true. Direct response is not a style, it's an objective. Direct response just means I'm going to show you an ad, and I can tell how you reacted to it. So I can tell how many responses I had from that ad. That is pretty much 90% of advertising out there. A Google Ad, a billboard with a specific phone number on it that can be tracked how many calls come through, a letter that has, a QR code on it that people scan, content piece that you have to click an arm to go in to to to to view. Anything that commands a response is direct response.

Alex Myatt [00:09:49]:
Yeah. So I don't want people to sit there and go, oh, maybe I should do direct response. You are doing direct response. Yeah. Everyone is doing direct response.

Richard Hill [00:09:54]:
Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:09:54]:
It's just about where do you look for inspiration to Yeah. Better improve your copywriting, your conversion rate, etcetera, etcetera.

Richard Hill [00:10:03]:
So now we've cleared that up. Yes. So ecom stores listing in, what would you say is the biggest missed opportunity in the industry by now?

Alex Myatt [00:10:14]:
I I I I I I think when when people ask these kind of questions, I often see people answer with trends. Or they say, oh, this thing is working really well at the moment. Or, you know, this new thing has come up, or there's this trend we've seen on TikTok, or whatever that that people need to jump on. I would say the biggest missed opportunity has been the biggest missed opportunity for the last 8 years since I've been doing this, and it's offer building. It's ecommerce stores either don't know that they can do this or they don't think that they can execute it or pull it off properly. If you look at selling any kind of product as a opportunity to connect with the person that you're selling to, instead of just saying, right, well, we have a product, we're gonna put a price tag on it, and we're gonna sell it to someone. Mhmm. People don't really think like that.

Alex Myatt [00:11:07]:
You know, money, of course, is an important part of this, but how else can you build around that price tag to make what you're selling seem way, way better to people? And what I mean by that are things like discounts are the obvious one. That's what everyone thinks. When people say offers or offer building, people think of special offers. They think of discounts. That isn't what offer building is. It's not just sticking a discount on it. Offer building is around thinking, how can we make this look more valuable to the person who's gonna buy it? That could be anything from, free gifts attached to buying it. That could be, how it's packaged.

Alex Myatt [00:11:43]:
That could be what the name is. That could be a bundle it's part of. It could be, a guarantee that's attached to it. It could be access to some kind of club after buying the product. And e commerce stores, I think, either they don't know about any of this or they go, that kind of stuff is should be reserved for SaaSs and for info products and for coaches. But actually, if you take what those other industries are doing and you apply them to ecommerce, the results are astronomical. Just one example, and I've got dozens. One of probably my favorite example is I was working with, a gluten free brand, where we were selling like a a select box of gluten free treats effectively.

Alex Myatt [00:12:23]:
And when I when I started with them, they were just selling that. Yeah. They'd they'd occasionally have 10% off or, you know, new joiners offer or whatever. And I just said, okay, let's try something here. As well as selling the free treat of, you know, sorry, and as well as selling the box of treats, let's also attach to it a free gift, which is just a digital product, which was the best ways to, use this box with ice cream, for example. Because they're all kind of like flakes and, you know, what do you call it? Wafers. Thank you. So flakes and wafers and things like that.

Alex Myatt [00:13:01]:
Things that you could use with ice cream, but it's all gluten free. So I just said, look, just whenever someone buys it, just give them a free guide. Just say, on the thing, plus free guide for this thing. Didn't take it took maybe like a day for the for the company to make, you know, just a digital designer and someone to I mean, it was only like 10 pages or something. And the response the the checkout rate of completion went up by 15% immediately just from that's a sustained 15% it went up. You know, that was the same from the first day we did it up until 3 months later. Yep. Just that adding a free gift, which we weren't posting.

Alex Myatt [00:13:36]:
Mhmm. There was no cogs there.

Richard Hill [00:13:38]:
After you've done the initial You

Alex Myatt [00:13:40]:
you just make it once, and then you just have a immediate page afterwards where it's, oh, you can download here. That's just one example of making the offer more enticing. So for for anyone listening, what I would say is look at what you're selling, you know, whether one product or a range or whatever, and just ask, okay. Why are people buying this? What is it around this product they're actually looking to get? So if it's something to do with, I don't know, like, a back band, right, to kind of, like, help with back pain, or, you know, something for a chair to to to help your posture. Why is someone doing that? Well, they're in pain. So also with that product, why not attach a free digital guide for the best stretches to relieve back pain? And it's things like that where you'll find people will start buying just to get that free bonus. Mhmm. It's an easy way for them to justify, well, I yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:14:26]:
It's it's expensive. It might be like 90 quid or whatever. Yeah. But also I'm getting this free gift that's gonna teach me this. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:14:32]:
Let's do that.

Richard Hill [00:14:33]:
What about products where it's maybe more difficult to do a digital, additional gift? So let's say we're selling, try to think of something difficult.

Alex Myatt [00:14:42]:
But I think that's the point, though.

Richard Hill [00:14:43]:
Like, it's so difficult to think of barbecue. Here's the guide on how to grill the perfect burger. It I there's no reason. Maybe, I guess clothing is, yeah, here's a style guide. Very good. I guess you there's there's quite a lot. But I guess when it's a little bit more difficult, maybe what's what what I'm driving at is, you know, we'll have a lot of people that maybe, know, there's maybe a few instances where it's a little bit more difficult when they've got, say, 10,000 SKUs Mhmm. You know, which is quite common.

Richard Hill [00:15:07]:
You know? Of course, there's categories subcategories, that's the category. You might have 50 barbecues in it. You've got your grilling guide for the 50 barbecues. But what are you know, you mentioned a few things at the beginning. You know, there's there's sort of bundling and guarantee the way you're using direct response, bundling guarantee, unlocking access to certain inventory possibly. You know, maybe just expand on a few other ideas.

Alex Myatt [00:15:27]:
Yeah. The the it's I mean, keeping it simple as well. Anything that you do anyway, so for example, your refunds policy, maybe, something that has been great for us recently, the brands I've been working with. If you can offer it, just make it clear that there are free returns.

Richard Hill [00:15:44]:
Yeah. So if you

Alex Myatt [00:15:45]:
don't like it, we we won't charge you to return it. And what you'll find is most people don't return it anyway. You you even if you say you have to return to get a refund, but you say it's a free return Mhmm. People are fine with that. They're like, okay, great, free returns. And what you'll find is most people won't return anyway because they can't be bothered with the hassle. But just shouting about the fact that you don't charge them to send it back is something that they go, oh, that's useful. Because in their mind, it's like, well, if I get it and I don't like it, I can send it back.

Alex Myatt [00:16:10]:
So all of a sudden, the offer becomes safety as well.

Richard Hill [00:16:13]:
Yeah. You know? I guess it seemed there seems to be a bit of a a switch from quite a lot of, say, apparel, retailers where they start to charge for returns. Mhmm. No. I think what you're saying more is, obviously, that's gonna increase conversion. Yep. And, obviously, you will insert it in in certain verticals industries. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:16:32]:
They won't send it back. But in some verticals, it's can be quite tricky if you're saying free returns where then they order 7 pairs. I have to admit, you know, I need I need a new tuxedo for for an awards due a few weeks back, and they ordered 4 jackets, 4 trousers, 6 shirts, and I kept 2 jackets, 1 shirt, 1 pair

Alex Myatt [00:16:52]:
of trousers, and sent 9 things back. So you're a bastard is what you are.

Richard Hill [00:16:57]:
Yeah. So I'm a bit of a dick, basically, but I got the perfect, what I thought, in my mind, was the perfect set of gear, but that's why I bought from them, to be fair. Yeah. And so they, you know, they they still do that. But I know quite a few apparel companies, and different fashion brands have started charging a little bit. So it's a little bit, I guess, sometimes not straightforward.

Alex Myatt [00:17:19]:
Yeah. It's it's always a you know, I mean, I I always, AB testing, is, you know, AB testing is Yeah. Is is gospel is king, as far as I'm concerned. So, like, any anything, you know, we we could sit here and talk for hours about, oh, ideas and things we could do. But what I would say to every brand is is just allocate a month to test something. Yeah. See if it works for you. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:17:37]:
Because you'll kick yourself within 2 years. You haven't tested anything yet. You've gone back. There could have been, you know, 24 tests that we could have run. Have a go, introducing a a free returns policy. Have a go at, shouting about a guarantee. Have a go at saying, if you need to buy, for example, apparel brands, especially, smart kind of upper end rental places for tuxedos where people are are renting 1 so they need to make sure they get the right thing, just say rent 4 or, you know, buy 5, and choose what you want. And don't worry, you haven't got and you can make that part of the offer.

Alex Myatt [00:18:10]:
You know, you can make saying, like, get any that you want, and then you choose which ones to keep, for example. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:18:14]:
Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:18:15]:
I guess the point is, like, you know, I obviously, I can't sit here and list what will be perfect for everyone because you're in different industries, different niches. But have a think about what the person on the other end of the screen really cares about. Yeah. It may be cause they've got another pain that they're they're buying this thing. It may be that they they have an objection or a worry about, for example, well, what if it doesn't fit? What if it's not quite right for me? Think about the things that they worry about, the things that they want, and then what you can do to easily satisfy that. In some cases, you may even be able to justify, you know, adding cogs to to the offer and saying, a free a free t shirt. You know, free t shirts were is probably the the kind of most widespread example of of this that people do. You know, even like PlayStation did that when they when they brought the PS 5 out.

Alex Myatt [00:18:56]:
They was like, oh, get a free, get a bundle with a t shirt Yeah. For example Yeah. Yeah. Which makes people feel like, oh, well, yeah. It might be an extra £40, but you're also getting these other things. And you go, would you pay £40 for a t shirt normally? Of course of course not. Why wouldn't? But, so I think that the way to to approach this for anyone listening is just think about the end user, your brand, and ask yourself, how can I make the experience way better for them? So when they walk away, they go, I can't believe I just got that Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:19:24]:
As well. Yeah. I think so if you're with us right now, I think, you know, you probably need to just hit the old rewind for the last sort of 7 or 8 minutes because I think a lot of this a lot of ideas you you've stepped through there are just very fundamental to stand out in what will be a very, very crowded market, no doubt. You know? And I think it's something you did touch on, which is gonna tie into my next question, I think, nicely, is, obviously, we've, in theory, we've persuaded people to make that first order with a few of the ideas. And, obviously, we'll we'll no doubt pepper a few more ideas through the episode. So we've got that first order, but, obviously, improving that average order value Yep. And then getting them to come back, getting them to come back. You mentioned clubs, a club, but getting them to join a club.

Richard Hill [00:20:16]:
So talk to me about sort of improving average order values with, you know, the the sort of direct response copywriting. Mhmm. But then how you would then bring in clubs and membership maybe into something and and, sort of loyalty.

Alex Myatt [00:20:29]:
Yeah. Well, the two things I always look at whenever I'm going into any new store is I'll look immediately at AOV and LTV, which everyone should be doing. You know? That's that's not new. But the things I look at within that to how to do it, the things that I have seen work again and again and again, I I don't think I've ever implemented this and it hasn't worked for any brand. AOV, you need to get one click upsells into your dynamic right now. A one click upsell, you know, if it doesn't matter if you're using WordPress, I think that, you know, WordPress, you've got plugins like cart flows on Shopify. I think you've got lead carts. I I can't remember the exact names of the, of all of them, but just click in, you know, type in one click upsell, whatever platform you're using.

Alex Myatt [00:21:12]:
A one click upsell is effectively someone has bought the product and you already have their card information, and immediately you don't send them to a thank you page. You don't send them to a, a sign up or whatever. You send them straight to a landing page, which has an another offer on it, which is it could depends on what store you have, but could be a, quantity offer. So let's say you're buying let's say you're buying, protein powder, for example. Could just be, hey, buy another pack, but it's slightly discounted, for example. That is such an easy way to increase AOV. It Doesn't just have to be bulk offers. It could be, the cross sells.

Alex Myatt [00:21:48]:
It could be another product that makes sense with it. But the point is, because you've just taken their card information Mhmm. It's one click. And you make that obvious, you know, you're not you're not trying to, you know, bait and switch people. Say, you know, clicking this will will add this to your order. But all they need to do is press that one button, and then that's potentially another, you know, 20 quid on the profit margin that you wouldn't otherwise have had. Yeah. It's another sale that you haven't had to pay for because they've already just bought something for you.

Alex Myatt [00:22:15]:
So that's that's the the the big thing. But also within that, just adding check boxes to product pages, you're saying, oh, yes, I would like to add this Yeah. For whatever it is. That could be, again, like Yeah. A cross sell. That could be, an add on. If you actually look at, gun brands in America, they do this fantastically, and not condoning, ownership of guns personally. But if you look at their stores, whenever someone buys like a rifle, there are so many attachments you can have to it.

Alex Myatt [00:22:47]:
And on so many product pages in like rifle stores or gun stores, they'll have ads, this magazine, this clip Yeah. You know, this type of scope. Yeah. And and it's and it they do so well because Yeah. Especially when you're there and you're buying something like a gun, which, you know, is pretty cool. And you you're buying it because you're like, yeah, I want that. You want all the stuff with it. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:23:04]:
Yeah. Just give people the option to add stuff immediately.

Richard Hill [00:23:07]:
Yeah. I I was in a meeting with a with a client probably about a month ago, and they sell car parts. And, you know, similarly, you know, you're buying a certain part for the car. There's a lot of parts for cars, classic cars. But their checkout, you know, did have an upset option, but it wasn't dynamic. So it was a static product, which is a big big issue. You know? Big big issue. So they're they're on a sort of custom built platform, so they needed some customization.

Richard Hill [00:23:32]:
But I know that's something they're working on now. But it's the simple thing. It sounds obvious. You know? Probably 50% of the people were like, well, I've got I've got, you know, one click upseller. I've got upsell on the cart. But probably only 10% of those might be dynamic. Obviously, depends on what platform. It's a lot easier on on, obviously, the the the the plat the the top platforms that we talk about.

Richard Hill [00:23:51]:
You know, you mentioned a couple there. But then I think just going in and testing, you know, what is it doing? Is it dynamic enough? Is it is it really showing the products? Because if you've gone and bought the, you know, in your example, this product, you know, gun white, you've gone and bought the I don't know the inside of cars too well, actually, but, you've gone and bought a a new, trying to think a new carbon wing for your m 4. You might want some carbon skirts. Yeah. Yeah. Quite an extreme example.

Alex Myatt [00:24:19]:
The carbon wing for m 4 also sounds like a gun thing as well. So Yeah. There you go. Works across. I think

Richard Hill [00:24:24]:
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Richard Hill [00:25:08]:
They've been so you've you've got them to obviously buy the upsell, cross sell. You know, there's a couple of options there in in the checkout. We we anything else there to add?

Alex Myatt [00:25:16]:
Yeah. Well, so, I mean, so Wipe spoke about kind of you've got like the presale which you have, order, order bumps. So order bumps are the presale where that's just a tick on the product page. And, you know, if I I appreciate people have thousands of SKUs, you know. So, what I would say, if it's possible in your platform, and if it's not, I would say make possible because it's worth it, just pick the top 10 best selling products. Because, you know, we we all know the curve of how many products actually get. So what your most popular is versus, right, 80% of sales are going to these 20% of products. Choose your your top 10, 20% of products, or even just 10 or 20 products, and do it for those because that's where the real money comes in.

Alex Myatt [00:25:54]:
Just make sure they have water bumps on the product page and then a couple of even just a couple of one click upsells, you know, that Yeah. If again, I don't I don't know for for the listeners. I don't know how, familiar they may be with, the likes of kind of older school, info products. But if you go and sign up for financial publishing newsletters Yeah. Or health publisher newsletters Yeah. And go through their order journeys, even buy something from a buy buy a subscription to a newsletter, for example, and just look at what they do on the checkout pages. Yeah. Now I know that 90% of people will look at that and go, well, that looks scammy, that looks too old school for me, which it almost certainly will be.

Alex Myatt [00:26:33]:
But you can chain you can keep the fundamental of what's happening, and you can change it for your store. And more people should be looking at what other industries do and saying, how can we replicate it? It's working for them. Yeah. So, yeah, a AOV, I would say order bumps, one click upsells are covered, the 2 fundamentals. And then we you you mentioned, a few minutes ago the idea of a club or a membership. Yeah. Because I said the second thing I look at is is LTV. Now this, of course, comes into AOV as well because oftentimes increasing LTV is just about increasing that initial purchase as well.

Alex Myatt [00:27:03]:
But for any store, and I appreciate this can't be a thing for everyone, but try to introduce a subscription offer of some description. And if you're thinking, well, we don't have anything right now that is a subscription offer, I would go so far as to say you should create a product or create a service or a club to justify having a subscription model. Because introducing subscription models to ecommerce businesses, it just just changes every it changes the game completely. Because not only are you getting more money in, but also you feel safer because you know, well, I'm guaranteed x amount this month. I haven't got to worry, you know, if this campaign goes to shit, I have the club, the membership, the whatever's still going. That can be anything from, warranty clubs, you know. So for for higher end goods, for anyone who's selling like big electricals, just saying, hey. Would you like to pay for ongoing maintenance? Or would you do you wanna do a one time purchase so ongoing maintenance is, you know, an alternative, or just introducing a club for people who are fanatics about Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:28:06]:
The niche. Yeah. This isn't gonna work for everything. You know, if if you're a store and you're selling, like, shower caps, for example, which is a functional purchase, I don't think you're gonna convince many people to sign up for a shout.

Richard Hill [00:28:17]:
You'd have to be a very good direct response copywriter to You

Alex Myatt [00:28:20]:
have to be Eugene Schwartz himself, I think,

Richard Hill [00:28:22]:
to make that work. Gary Halbert out.

Alex Myatt [00:28:25]:
Yeah. Exactly. The thing I would say though is it really lends itself to what I call tribal stores. Anything where you can very easily build a tribe around it. So fishing, for example. Yeah. Anything that's hobby based. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:28:38]:
Just passionate. Yeah. Exactly. Just try introducing something where you can offer a access to a back end where people share their tips, for example, and their secrets, or you have a course. Something I think more ecommerce businesses should be doing is introducing courses

Richard Hill [00:28:53]:
of security. Totally agree. I think the amount of people that will be with us now and their cogs should be were in what course, community, paid membership. You know, Amazon, you know, the £79 a month a year you pay out is probably a bit more than that now. You know, that is a that is a club. At the end of the day, that's about the delivery and access to, you know, access to delivery, access to certain discounts on certain special days, and and advanced access. You know?

Alex Myatt [00:29:19]:
I I mean, on on that point, Craig, so I've just been working with, with Superdrug, and one thing that they're introducing is a subscription delivery service. Yeah. Because as it stands, you order your subscription or you order your, you know, private medicine, whatever it is, and, you just pay a delivery fee. But what they've found is that that puts a lot of people off. Obviously, no one likes paying for delivery. Yeah. So instead, what they're introducing and what's been proven to work as well with some of their sub brands is just introducing a delivery subscription so you pay £40 a year Yeah. And you get everything delivered.

Richard Hill [00:29:52]:
Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:29:53]:
And actually, on balance, that's way more profitable for them anyway. Plus, it feels far better for the person on the other end.

Richard Hill [00:29:59]:
People are more likely to come back as if there's prescriptions involved, obviously, there's a lot of repeat purchase anyway. Yeah. But they're more likely to come back to you.

Alex Myatt [00:30:06]:
Yeah. And it's about adding, again, I'd there's about 15 different topics to cover here. But, it's also just about adding the perceived value to someone both at the point of purchase and after they've purchased. Because if, say, you have convinced someone to sign up for a delivery subscription just for argument's sake, then every time they reorder with you, you can say you're saving XPan. Deliveroo do that brilliantly. Yeah. So anyone that has a subscription, not only should you be introducing it or or thinking about what you can introduce for for revenue, you should also be thinking about it for customer loyalty. And how can I make my customers feel like they're getting a fantastic service because they've shown their trust in the company?

Richard Hill [00:30:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a massive area that has just missed that subscription piece. I think people say, oh, we can't do subscription in our industry. But I beg I beg to differ in 90%. You know, and it there's all there's all sorts of clever ways, isn't it? It could be you know, you talked about digital products, build a community. There's the obvious things like discounts and access to stock, or put it all together.

Richard Hill [00:31:06]:
You know? And and whether it's, you know, small nominal fee, you just mentioned £40, £80, but then you start getting tens, 100, 1,000. Yeah. Pull that on a monthly, yearly basis. You know? It soon helps you sleep at night. You know?

Alex Myatt [00:31:20]:
That that's the thing. And and all of this, everything we've been talking about for the last kind of 10 minutes, it's all offer building. This is all about it's these aren't clever little hacks or tweaks Yeah. You know, of like, oh, how can we slightly improve this thing? This can be this can fundamentally change how well your business does. Yeah. This can be Yeah. Just introducing a new product or changing a product. And sometimes it can just be small tweaks to your products to change it.

Alex Myatt [00:31:43]:
But if you change the perception or you change what you offer to someone Yeah. All of a sudden, you can tap into a subsection of your market that you didn't even realize was there, or that you think, oh, wow, we're actually people are willing to pay us for this stuff. And so often, ecommerce businesses, they don't do it because they either feel scared to. They think, oh, that doesn't work for us, or they go, well, that's not best practice. You know? Mhmm. But I would challenge that, and I would say best practice is whatever your customers think best practice is. Yeah. Whatever makes them happy and they wanna buy, deliver it to them.

Alex Myatt [00:32:14]:
So slight change of direction. Yeah. I think I I think I've taken as

Richard Hill [00:32:18]:
a We've covered a lot of ground, Sal. Just thinking how we get a so all the listeners, you know, the ecom store owners, senior managers, marketeers, you know, and I think a lot of them will have a similar challenge where they've got their 10,000 SKUs. You know? It comes down to Yep. You know, without the product pages, product very strong product pages, you know, you have you don't have an ecom store, obviously, without product pages. You have the categories, subcategories, maybe a few of the sub subcategories, an array of brochure pages, the about us pages, and so forth, and we could cover that. That's obviously very, very important pages around the brand and brand story and so forth. But, ultimately, we end up with 10,000, you know, sort of arbitrary number, but 10,000, a 100,000 pages that I've got products on. Mhmm.

Richard Hill [00:33:04]:
And a lot of people sell on the same products. So standing out and sort of potentially using, direct response to stand out. You know, what would you say to the listeners about using direct response on product pages to really help? You've covered quite a lot of this in a roundabout way already, but I think specifically on product pages, because that's the and the day, that's the one that's where you're getting the add to cart. That's the that's the that's the page. Obviously, we're gonna fill them in with the categories, subcategories, and we could cover that up as well.

Alex Myatt [00:33:33]:
Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:33:34]:
But those product pages that are gonna get that click using and implementing direct response, what sort of things can our listeners be doing?

Alex Myatt [00:33:42]:
Yeah. So I I think if we're using the best of direct response, I think that by extension of being so interested in direct response principles and copywriting, I've I've kind of just become a geek of conversion rate optimization, which is is what this is, a CRO for for product pages. And I will in a moment, I think I'll list off just, like, 5 or 10 things that I notice in very quick things. So if you're listening and then you you hear one of these things, go and have a look if you're doing them or not because I've run a lot of tests on this. But generally speaking, first of all, a product page is all about it's not it's not actually about persuasion. As as stupid as that sounds, for a lot of for a lot of brands, it's not actually about persuasion. It's just about confirmation. It's about confirming why the reader is already there.

Alex Myatt [00:34:29]:
Because so often, they've they've been through an ad already. People are just they just rock up on a product page out of nowhere. They've seen something. They've seen an email. They've seen an ad or whatever. So I I don't want people to think that product pages have to, repeat every single thing that has been said, because that's not always the case. And so often, you just need to show people this stuff that you were expecting to see. Yes, we do this.

Alex Myatt [00:34:52]:
And here's the things to to get you over the edge. Yeah. Yeah. So bullets on product pages are just fantastic. You know, if you don't have bullets in your product page, if you just have a one block of description, you need to change that. Because people look at a product page and they want to see that, oh, good. Right. There is free delivery.

Alex Myatt [00:35:07]:
Yes. This is perfect for my demographic or whatever it is, the reason I've joined. Yes. I get a free gift with this thing. Yes, it is as durable as I thought it was gonna be. Yes, it's got whatever the features are that are important to your readers. Reaffirming them. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:35:22]:
Like, just list them off. Because so often, I see ecommerce stores that make their readers I'll say last last last name, visitors. You need to you need to have done the research on your target audience Yeah. To know what they most care about Yeah. And you need to show that right at the top. Because I I I'm a direct response fan boy, you know, and I I I'm fully behind long form copy. I think long form copy is amazing. And the more copy that you can write, the better chance you have to persuade someone because you can cover more objections, etcetera, etcetera.

Alex Myatt [00:36:04]:
So I'm a big fan of long product pages that are actually good, and they're touching on, you know, things that people wanna scroll down and go, oh, but what about this objection? Let me see. However, that doesn't just mean you should have your pages be long for the sake of it. You should be working out what the things that are most important to your reader are and putting them at the top. Because so many people, when they're at the product page, don't wanna have to read and go through every single thing again. They just wanna see, yep, this is what I was expecting, I wanna buy it now. So making it as easy to buy as possible, first of all. Big clashing button, so, you know, I mean like orange, blue, anything that stands out on the page, have your button there, have it be representative of what's actually gonna happen. So for example, if it's gonna be added to the cart, put add to cart.

Alex Myatt [00:36:48]:
If it's go to the checkout, put checkout. A lot I see a lot of people argue for using quite, like, fancy language on buttons. Every time I've tested fancy language on buttons, the simple one always wins. Just tell people what's gonna happen next. Because what you'll find is if you have something like, oh, I don't know, join the revolution or something. Yeah. I I I sometimes see on stores. And I understand why people do it.

Alex Myatt [00:37:13]:
They wanna they wanna I've not seen

Richard Hill [00:37:14]:
that one. Join the

Alex Myatt [00:37:15]:
revolution. Just just just stuff like that. They wanna seem quirky.

Richard Hill [00:37:18]:
What are you buying when you join the revolution?

Alex Myatt [00:37:19]:
You know, guillotines and, you know, things like that.

Richard Hill [00:37:21]:
Scopes for the gums.

Alex Myatt [00:37:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. I actually that might work on that. I'm not a done page. But but no. But what I what I mean is just tell people what's gonna happen after they click. Because so often when people are in that state of mind, we're on their product page, they they just wanna know what up what do I have to do, and what's going to happen after I click. So Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:37:40]:
Check out or add to cart, whatever is gonna happen, tell them that. Images is huge one as well. We'll come back to copy in a in a second. I'll just kind of rattle through things. Images have at at least 5 images of your product, you know, assuming that you have a product that can be photographed easily. The the ones that I always find best are the first one is just a, blank background with the product in the the the best way it could possibly be. Yep. So extend it out to what it is, no no distractions, then another one with it in use, then another one for scale next to something that it would likely be used with Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:38:15]:
Or or in. So Sort of a lifestyle.

Alex Myatt [00:38:17]:
Exactly. Yeah. Lifestyle photo. So like in a garden, for example Yeah. You know, next to, you know, your door, whatever. It depends, you know, depends what the product is, of course. Yeah. And then, diagram images as well.

Alex Myatt [00:38:28]:
Yeah. Have a diagram that that tells people how big it is. Like, it is insane the number of people who the the the number of, times I've done research, on, for for example, an exercise ball, I remember. And talking to customers and especially people who who dropped out or who'd given us their email but didn't check out, asking them, oh, why didn't you buy? Yeah. How many of them said, oh, I didn't know how big it was?

Richard Hill [00:38:54]:
Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:38:55]:
And it's like the the the the company hadn't even thought of, like, the size of it because they just thought, oh, well, there's a standard size for x size balls. Yeah. We we didn't really think we need to put that on. Or it was, but it was in an accordion somewhere. Yeah. So having an image with the size, even on products where you think size doesn't matter, so many people, you know I'm sorry guys, size does matter because people wanna look and know, well, is this thing gonna fit for example on my shelf? Is this gonna am I able to be able to hold this, etcetera? Point is, for your images, the ones that I've just stated and also diagrams of some sort, especially if it's something that can be taken apart for example.

Richard Hill [00:39:27]:
I I see that missed a lot. I think diagrams, the amount of times I'm I'm browsing and buying things and then the size thing spins through my head and I'm having to dive through the dimension. Oh, yeah. Dimension. Yeah. Whereas I know certain clients, for example, going back to the car, examples of big schematics of a engine. Yeah. There's, like, 50 things that can come off that.

Richard Hill [00:39:47]:
I know they do it with a certain client. I'm thinking I'll do it very, very well.

Alex Myatt [00:39:51]:
Yeah. Arrow arrows and centimeters.

Richard Hill [00:39:53]:
Exactly. Yes. Some sort of, 2 d, 3 d elements to it as well.

Alex Myatt [00:39:56]:
And and this comes back to my point, which is that's not about persuasion. That's about confirmation. That's just someone who wants to go Yeah. Does it check this box I have in my head? So we don't have to think of if fancy and, you know, and then kind of play for Louie in copywriting terms. Just give them what they need to see. Similarly, reviews close to your action section. Yeah. So, having, like, a a a an image of someone who's bought, you know, for a photo real, for example, just with quotes and stars.

Richard Hill [00:40:22]:
Pulling some UGC reviews close to the ad to cart.

Alex Myatt [00:40:25]:
Yeah. And then just all the basics. Things that, sometimes I see people just forget, like, just something as simple as, like, a padlock that says secure checkout near the checkout button. Mhmm. It makes people feel safe. Yeah. Oftentimes people have, the the title, the name of the product. Now for some stores, you need to keep that because, especially for like car parts, people need to know what the the thing is.

Alex Myatt [00:40:44]:
But if you're in like a one product store, for example, where you only have like a certain range, you don't need to waste the prime real estate of your page, which is the top section above the action section. Don't waste that with repeating, like, the full name and title of your of your product. Know, I know some people do that for SEO purposes Yeah. And but and but there are ways to get around that. You can still have it, you know, smaller but have it as an 8 one tag, for example. But the point is, that prime real estate, use that for the best review that you have. Yeah. Use that for the, biggest objection killer.

Alex Myatt [00:41:16]:
It's

Richard Hill [00:41:16]:
more of a persuasion piece than a just stating the obvious that they already know because that's why they're there. They know it's a Yeah. Blue ball or whatever.

Alex Myatt [00:41:24]:
Exactly. Yeah. But but Yeah. But yeah. And that is, like, something you certainly can use persuade the other page for. You know? I don't wanna get too much into demanding of I

Richard Hill [00:41:30]:
guess this is where I actually, you know, we can have a head to head with our head of SEO and there's there is there is the Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like the, come on. Let's see who wins. But it is very much you know, we have these conversations a lot, you know, with with, obviously, the the design side, the the copywriting side, the SEO side. Just trying to find that balance because, ultimately, you know, each of those guys, you know, have got a, I guess, a percentage of what's the right word? Each each of those guys, you know, contribute to persuading Yeah. And and the brand and the detail. But it is trying to get a balance, isn't it? You know, I hate you know, as a you know, I'm a very much an SEO through and through, you know, from 25 years, you know, doing it.

Richard Hill [00:42:09]:
I'm running an agency. But I hate to see, obviously, the keywords just old old old school, just stuff stuff stuff stuff. You don't need to do that. You still see brands trying to do that. You know, it's just terrible. You know? I think it's more important than ever the sort of aesthetics over SEO because you can still get the s e the SEO in there.

Alex Myatt [00:42:28]:
Yeah. I I it it totally yeah. I mean, as as you know and as the listeners know, it it completely depends on what kind of store you're running. You know? If if you're you're highly relying on organic search, you know, of course, you prioritize that.

Richard Hill [00:42:38]:
Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:42:38]:
But if you have, you know, a big list, then you can send people directly to product pages from an email, then Yeah. Maybe worry less about, you know, how optimize the pages for SEO. So

Richard Hill [00:42:48]:
urgency. I think this is one that I see them maybe not very how can I use the word honestly yet? A lot of the time. What's your take on using urgency with ecom stores?

Alex Myatt [00:43:00]:
Yeah. I mean, the first thing to say is just above all, my principle is honesty. And that's not because of, like, some kind of you know, I'm not a highly moral person or anything. It's just a case of if you dupe someone, they won't come back. And, like, that that is just how you shoot yourself in the foot. Yeah. It's so much easier to keep a customer than talking to a customer. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:43:18]:
So why would you wanna win someone and then piss

Richard Hill [00:43:21]:
them off? Yeah. Win them

Alex Myatt [00:43:23]:
and then win them again and win them again and win them again and win them again, and they'll come back. And then you haven't got to pay for the ads. Yeah. Anyway, but for urgency specifically, on product pages, 1, like, if you're if you're not out running out of stock, don't say you're running out of stock because it's it is you know, don't don't don't bullshit on on these things because it's it always comes back to bite you. Yep. But in terms of how you can drive urgency, it's reminding people of why they're buying. And that's the key is that if it's particularly if it's a pain, if it's a big pain that you're focusing on and your your product is relieving a pain, especially physical pain, but also, you know, emotional pain or if it's a gift for someone else or, you know, in time for certain dates, you can always use that for urgency. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:44:04]:
What I mean is if it is, a product that can be put to good use immediately and it's something people have really been missing feel like they've been missing out and they really want, just remind them, like, start using a slide today or out of the box. My favorite way to encourage urgency, which is like indirectly, subtly encouraging it, is giving people, either on the product page or saying that it's a free a free gift that they get when they order, an immediate setup guide, I wouldn't call it a setup guide, but it's effectively how to use the product once you have it Yeah. And give a few examples of it. And even on the product page, I would just say best ways to use or or or things to do with with x. Now you listening, like, it depends on your story. You need to think about what makes sense for you. You know, for a car park, for example, you can't put best ways to use because, like, there's one way to use it, which is in the engine where it's meant to go. But particularly for an exercise ball, you know, like we're just talking about, have them show how it's going to help, perhaps, the target audiences, people who have, you know, joint pain, how it's gonna help relieve joint pain immediately.

Alex Myatt [00:45:07]:
And you can say, you know, you can get started with this today. You can download this today, and you can start getting used to these stretches, or you can start getting ready for what your routine's gonna be.

Richard Hill [00:45:15]:
Which is a genuine thing, isn't it? Yeah. I think what otherwise, which it sounds obvious, but you just don't see enough we're talking about deadlines and time urgency, just the delivery. You know, as simple as the

Alex Myatt [00:45:26]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Richard Hill [00:45:27]:
You know, you've got a countdown. There's a cough when that particular merchant or you as you as the merchant can get that stock out of the door. It might be 5 PM today. They're sat on the website at 3 o'clock. Right. You've got a 2 hour window. Right. You can receive this if you order it in the next 2 hours, 1 hour 59, and you obviously see that on the majority of stores, but not all stores.

Alex Myatt [00:45:45]:
A 100%.

Richard Hill [00:45:45]:
Simple. That is a that is a very oh god.

Alex Myatt [00:45:48]:
You know?

Richard Hill [00:45:48]:
This I had a real problem the other day. Going back to my tuxedo, I'm there. It was the certain company I no do till 10 o'clock. Yeah. It's close to 10. I've got all these different things in the basket. And my wife pipe my wife's like, oh, what did it the weekend? And I'm like, oh, we're doing this. And then she's talking about what the boys are doing at the weekend.

Richard Hill [00:46:07]:
And I went back to the screen. It was 1 minute past 10. I'm like, ah. And I was watching the clock. I was like, yes, darling. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:46:14]:
Yeah. Missed the flipping deadline. Yeah. I had to but I I could have it delivered to store, but not to my house. So I had to go to the store. Yeah. But I was very much sat there knowing I had 15 minutes, and I think that's a good one.

Alex Myatt [00:46:28]:
And and that but that also brings it back to honesty, which is because you know that that is real and that's gonna happen

Richard Hill [00:46:34]:
the next

Alex Myatt [00:46:34]:
time you're like, well, no. I'm doing

Richard Hill [00:46:35]:
it. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:46:36]:
And, you have for for for deadlines, for countdowns to be affected, they have to be real. Yeah. Because, you know, people will will know for next time. But, yeah, the the next point I wanted to come on to was just, around, anything dynamic countdown wise. So if you genuinely can have a reason to have an offer run out at some point, some stores just continuously do discounts Yeah. Which I'm not a 100% against because for some niches, it really does make sense. Yeah. DFS have been doing As

Richard Hill [00:47:02]:
soon as you said it,

Alex Myatt [00:47:03]:
I was like Yeah. Everyone everyone knows that.

Richard Hill [00:47:05]:
This weekend, next weekend is the final

Alex Myatt [00:47:06]:
But it works because how often are you looking for a sofa? Once every 5 years.

Richard Hill [00:47:11]:
Yep.

Alex Myatt [00:47:12]:
And guess what? If you go in and you say, oh, they've got a sale on, you're not continuously looking. You're going, when's the sale on? When's the sale on? So for certain for certain products, especially when it's more just one time purchases, you don't expect people to come back too much. You can just run different offers and call them different things. There's nothing dishonest about saying, well, this discount is lasting or this sale is lasting

Richard Hill [00:47:32]:
Yeah. There's a new sale, but it is a different term.

Alex Myatt [00:47:34]:
As long as you've got a date on there and it's real, you are gonna change it slightly or the price is gonna go back up to something or whatever Yep. That makes sense. But but my favorite type of urgency definitely is just reminding people what they can start doing immediately once they have the Yeah. The product. Reminding them of why they're buying it. Yep. So that I would say when it comes to urgency is is is the case. But urgency also just comes naturally from having a product page, which is focused on confirming what they need to know.

Richard Hill [00:48:01]:
I think that's why it does boil down to, isn't it? You know, there's a they've they've made it to the site. They've obviously got a list of criteria. It's making sure, as the merchant, you are covering off that criteria. Yeah. The imagery, in the wording, in the the design. Right. So we've covered an absolute shit ton of ground on this one. And I think, what we haven't maybe said, I think I think we'll we'll I think it'll be a really good sort of to to wrap it up.

Richard Hill [00:48:29]:
You know, obviously, you've worked on a lot of copy, a lot of direct response, work of a lot of big clients. You know, we've mentioned a few. And I would imagine there's some reoccurring things that you see and go, oh,

Alex Myatt [00:48:40]:
bloody hell.

Richard Hill [00:48:41]:
They're doing that. They're doing that. You know? And I think the for the benefit of the listener that's with us now, they've been 45 minutes with us. And if we're gonna give them 2, 3 big takeaways that you fear they may be doing Mhmm. That, you know, you know you could probably come along with a couple of hours of your time and change people's lives with some and I don't wanna simplify it because, you know, you know, it's an absolute skill that that you you you have. But, you know, 2, 3 things that our listeners could go to now on their ecom stores

Alex Myatt [00:49:12]:
that would help them. Number 1, and this isn't actually something we've touched on yet, but it's something that I ecommerce stores, they need to be doing way more, is is better utilize your email list. And what I mean by that is, you know, we've talked people have talked about segment you know, you've had people on in this podcast talk about segmentation and stuff before. But what I mean is you need to really be looking at who haven't we contacted in a long time? Who has gone dead? Who has bought before? Do we have automation set up to capture all those people? Because I don't care how many times this gets said, and I know it's a relatively common piece of advice, but I know that 90% of the people listening to this will not have their their email list optimized. Yep. And Great. You need to go and do it because it it just it's the moneymaker. It really, really is.

Alex Myatt [00:49:58]:
People who have already bought are so much more likely to buy again than running a ton of ads or Yep. Putting a load into, you know, to to meta or to to SEO, you know Yeah. Campaigns or whatever. So number 1 is go to your email list and so here's a specific piece of advice. For anyone who's been a previous customer who has stopped by you know, if you have regular amounts, a regular, intervals of where people buy, you can use that as a benchmark. But for anyone who hasn't ordered in a while or has just stopped ordering or has only ordered once, do one campaign to them, give them a reason that you're emailing them, use the word because in your email, like, you have, we're sending this email because I would especially say you are one of only 5% of people who've had this email. Again, make sure it's true. But I'd love using that.

Alex Myatt [00:50:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. In the preview text of an email. Yeah. Yeah. Love using that. Just say, you're one of 5 you're you're one of the 5%.

Alex Myatt [00:50:51]:
What? Yeah. And it's like, oh, I because and it's as long as it's true. Yeah. And then you say you received this email because we noticed, like, you haven't bought in a while, but you bought this thing. If you can have a dynamic widget within your email, even better.

Richard Hill [00:51:02]:
Does the exact time or percentage?

Alex Myatt [00:51:04]:
Exactly. But but but if not, if you just if you just wanna drive to, like, one specific product, say, you'll receive this email because, you bought this thing, we think you're gonna love this, and we have one sale on just for for you guys at the moment. Just for, you know, yeah, people like you. Here it is. Go and do that. And then you can set that as an automation to run it.

Richard Hill [00:51:21]:
So that's number

Alex Myatt [00:51:22]:
1. Number 2. Number 2, I was saying this is for, product pages specifically, so let's stay on this because, it's something I would love to do. I've got a third one as well. But, for for landing pages, please, please, 100% times absolutely, please, use the copy space that you have, the bullets that we spoke about, the description to focus on what the reader was there for in the 1st place. And I'm gonna say something which I I I've I've only ever revealed in a paid course before actually. So I'll, you know, I'll say it here. This is an Ecom one exclusive.

Alex Myatt [00:51:57]:
The description formula that I use that has served me for years and is fantastic. I wouldn't change it. I call it copper oxide formula, because it's cu0, which is copper oxide, their chemical formula. C is call out. Make sure you are reminding people who this is for. Now again, this not every they can't work for every product necessarily. However, if it's just a car part, you can say for car enthusiasts. And that covers people or for owners of this make.

Alex Myatt [00:52:25]:
Yeah. For example. But for a lot of a lot of e comm businesses, especially, you know, ones in a kind of in a hobby space or for people who are vegan or for people who are interested in a certain niche or whatever, you can just say perfect for, like, new mothers. Right? Or perfect for, you know, like busy dads. Got it. Have a call out there. A specific that you can get it that that person's gonna identify with. That's the call out.

Alex Myatt [00:52:46]:
Make sure you say that in your product description. Just confirming who that who who it's for. You as the USP, just say why they should buy from you and not from anyone else, really basic stuff. But putting that on the product page next to your action button, reminding them why this is the only place they can get this kind of thing. Even if it's something really easy like, oh, the, the, longest serving in this industry, for example Yeah. Or the the only one that has this specific feature, or, get our free guide plus get our free guide. That is still a USB, you know. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:53:17]:
Get plus get this free guide. So if you don't have anything else, introduce the free guide like we, you know, spoke about or something like that Yeah. And have that in the USP for your for your product description. And the last is o, which is objection. Now if your visitor has a specific objection that you know about, then you put that in your description. You say, well, this is why this objection doesn't matter, effectively. This is what's overcoming it. This is the objection killer.

Alex Myatt [00:53:39]:
Or if you can't think of any objection they they might have, then go for the basics. So for example, free returns or Yeah. Free delivery or anything where they go, yeah. There's a read. That's a reason. Let's get this now. Yeah. You can replace that with urgency.

Alex Myatt [00:53:54]:
Just use the copper oxide formula for every product description and then a list of bullets underneath it that covers those points we discussed earlier. Yeah. And, like, there you go. You've got a pretty well optimized

Richard Hill [00:54:03]:
Love it. Topic. There's 3 very, very, very actionable pieces there.

Alex Myatt [00:54:06]:
Yeah. I think that the last thing that I would say, and this is a more general point which I I've left to last quite abstract, use the theory of cross pollination. Go to other industries. Within ecommerce, you can go to niches. Also outside of ecommerce, look at SaaS's, look at info publishers, and look at what they do in advertising. And everything that you look at that they that they're doing that seems to be working because they're doing it constantly. Yeah. Ask yourself, how can I adapt that for my business? And I promise you there is always a way.

Alex Myatt [00:54:35]:
And that is the reason I've done so well. It's because I've looked at other industries Yeah. Adapted it for ecommerce and the stores I've been working with, and effectively just invented a new way to Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:54:44]:
To get people on Facebook. Was working and then adapted it.

Alex Myatt [00:54:47]:
Yeah. And it's and and so often that's offer building that we spoke about earlier. That's what most successful businesses do, full stop, isn't it?

Richard Hill [00:54:52]:
Yeah. I'm I'm a big believer, Bill, like you say, you know, when you see a good bit of copy or you're you know, you follow certain copywriters or you get something in the post, like, I'm a bit of a collector of I've got a few

Alex Myatt [00:55:02]:
Oh, yeah.

Richard Hill [00:55:02]:
Folders at home or a few dozen folders at home, and I'll keep that, and I'll refer back to it. You know, I was a sub subscriber to Dan Kennedy for many years. Not Oh, yeah. I'm not now, but I was. You know, Gary Halbert's borrowing letters. Borrowing letters.

Alex Myatt [00:55:14]:
Yes. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:55:15]:
Virus. Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:55:17]:
There's so many things we talk about there. But, like, again, for example, before I came in today, I was sitting in the lobby and, there was a there was a there was a pamphlet, like a big kind of, thing. It was called I think it was called something like the the the Lincolnshire Business Review, something like that. And I opened it up because I always like looking at the ads, and it was such a piece of genius because it it's published and it's produced and it's given for free by, a guy who does headshots. And the first page of it is an ad saying, oh, like, you can get professional headshots with me. But the the the content inside is just about linking to your businesses and people can pay to to have be featured in it. But the point is, he's making that free, you know, giving out to loads of office buildings, and companies, and then generating his own business. Because guess what? Like, if you're a business, you might be interested in what's in the leadership business review, but also, oh, this guy's offering headshots, and here's a discount.

Alex Myatt [00:56:06]:
Yeah. And I got I know it's not straight to ecommerce, but it's just things like that where

Richard Hill [00:56:10]:
Yeah.

Alex Myatt [00:56:10]:
Just just look at just think about, you know Yeah. How could you could you could you

Richard Hill [00:56:13]:
say that idea and what could you do in your business? Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that, and thanks for coming on the show. I'd like to finish every episode with a book recommendation. Do you have a book to recommend to our listeners?

Alex Myatt [00:56:22]:
I do. And it relates to to the one of the final points I made there, which is, the book Alchemy by Rory Sutherland, which is honestly my favorite book that's have been written about advertising. I might sneak an extra book in if you allow me to.

Richard Hill [00:56:36]:
I will. I will.

Alex Myatt [00:56:37]:
Thank you very much. But no. But Alchemy, first of all, is, first of all, Rory Sutherland, for anyone who doesn't know, was involved with, the advertising company Ogilvy, in the UK, and just a phenomenal person, great speaker, very intelligent, and also extremely funny. The book is all about finding ideas in advertising that, on the surface, don't quite make sense. And I've taken a lot of inspiration from that book when I approach e commerce businesses. Yeah. I don't quite take all of it on board because I I do still need to do things that are best practices and, you know, making sure that I am hitting, hitting things that I know are gonna work. But testing things that might not work or testing things that do seem a bit weird or testing things that you've seen from other places, you know, that has been fueled by reading that book and understanding it.

Alex Myatt [00:57:22]:
So, Yeah. Alchemy is fantastic. And I would just recommend anyone reading it anyway. Yeah. I will shake in one more, which is if for for the people who want something slightly more, cut and dry, very, very practical, probably my favorite, or my other favorite advertising book, I should say, is, Scientific Advertising by Claude Hopkins, which was it was, you know, it was it was run about a 100 years ago. So certainly some of the context has changed since then. But if you're looking for what I believe advertising should be about for most businesses, read scientific advertising. It's it's public domain as well, so it's free.

Alex Myatt [00:57:55]:
Yeah. Yes, again, some of the the the context that it uses is, you know, a little bit little bit outdated. However, the core principles that, Claude Hopkins goes over and speaks about are just Still remain. Still remain. And not only still remain, you'll find that most businesses aren't doing them because they've been taken in by vanity metrics and and everything else. Whereas, scientific advertising is about here's how to make money from ads.

Richard Hill [00:58:20]:
Fabulous. Well, we'll link them both up in the show notes. For those that wanna find out more about you, Alex, and connect with you, what's the best way to do that?

Alex Myatt [00:58:28]:
I mean, LinkedIn, I'm always happy to connect with people. I enjoy following people. I also have, a YouTube channel called Copy That, which is all about copywriting. So me and and 3 others, Rod, Sean, and Lindsay, who are fantastic. We just talk about everything copywriting, everything marketing. You can pretty much find me hanging out and making videos there at any time. So Fabulous. Well, thanks for coming on the show,

Richard Hill [00:58:49]:
and I look forward to speaking to you again.

Alex Myatt [00:58:50]:
Thank you for having me. Cheers. If If

Richard Hill [00:58:57]:
you enjoyed this episode, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this podcast. You're always the first to know when a new episode is released. Have a fantastic day, and I'll see you on the next one.