E168: Carrianne Dukes

Richard Hill [00:00:04]:

Hi. I'm Richard Hill, the host of Ecom@One1 Welcome to episode 168. Today's guest is somebody who a lot of you guys will know if you've been on the podcast, Carrianne Dukes, Our senior marketing manager here at eComOne. Now we get asked a lot about the value of podcasting and the value of partnerships, and for us, it's been instrumental in our growth as an agency, and I know it's been instrumental in a lot of our clients' growth with their stores. But in this episode, Carrianne steps through booking a 168 guests on this podcast and the the why, the how, and some of the inner Sort of secrets of getting some very big stars in your industry on the podcast and on your potential podcast. The sort of 3, 4 step process of launching a podcast, the things you need to think about launching a podcast. But really we focus very deep on partnerships and the benefit of partnerships.

Richard Hill [00:00:59]:

Now partnerships for me and Carrianne is literally our day to day. We spend, you know, 3, 4 days a week Talking to our partners, liaising with potential partners, and carrying out steps through her process over the last 3 years, looking after our to the core partner network. So if you enjoy this episode, please subscribe and follow wherever you're listening to this episode. So without further ado, I'll give you Carrianne Dukes. We're recording, Carrianne. Isn't this exciting?

Carrianne Dukes [00:01:30]:

Very exciting.

Richard Hill [00:01:30]:

Three and a half years, We've been doing this podcast together, but maybe some of our listeners might not know your, contributions, I would say, to this cast. It has been phenomenal. Obviously, it's been a three and a half, 4 year journey almost with the podcast. But we'll get into that in a moment. But I think before we do, it'd be great for you to tell our listeners and viewers how you got into the world of ecommerce.

Carrianne Dukes [00:01:54]:

So I actually started getting into ecommerce Probably, really, the push was about 2 years ago, I would say, when I shifted from marketing b to b to really focusing on the sort of ecommerce side. So I started my degree 7 years ago, so doing a marketing management degree, and we learned The obviously, the complete theory. And then I started here in 2019 As a PPC exec, which is pretty wild, really, and then obviously started building sort of search ads for clients on the client side. Then I joined, started doing the SEO side, which was really fun. So doing sort of meta. So back in the day when it was really huge push on meta For a a local big client that sort of had over 200 locations, which was obviously really good one, and it was great Learning point as well for me being new in the industry. And then I started doing all sort of general marketing. But, yeah, like I said, really, the push has been the past couple years on the sort of brand side of the business.

Richard Hill [00:03:00]:

Mhmm.

Carrianne Dukes [00:03:00]:

They're building the commerce sort of ecosystem that we have of all the partnerships. Yeah. Making sure we protect the brand, we grow the brand, and also the event side as well. So getting clients and prospects into the building to help educate them. So, yeah, it's been a great, I would say, couple of years really in the ecommerce side, sort of building my own knowledge and also Helping our clients grow with the sort of partnerships that we've built.

Richard Hill [00:03:26]:

So I think we're sitting here on episode, I think, a 168. Obviously, that's a 168 people that you have booked and organized and rallied around and and unorganized, for this podcast. And that's just a sliver of the role. You know, as you said, you've you've covered a quite lot of areas of the business and then sort of landed in Your sort of, flow, I think, you know, on the partnership side and the podcast side. You know, they they obviously work very hand in hand working with. I think some people ask you know, I get I got asked this probably 3 days ago, 4 days ago, you know, what did you get from the podcast? It's like, well, You know, and I think people want that instant gratification. You know, we turn out and we wanna return, you know, and I I get that, but I think, You know, what would you say? You know, what is the importance to ecom store owners that are listening and marketeers are building Strong solid relationships in their industry.

Carrianne Dukes [00:04:22]:

Yeah. I think it's completely unrealistic for people to expect to get a return straight away, especially with podcasting. It is such a long term strategy. Yeah. And I always look at it as we've got 2 sort of main objectives from the sort of podcast. So the one, The first one is obviously it's more thought leadership that I look at as. So getting the team, getting yourself on the podcast to obviously learn from other people. Paul.

Richard Hill [00:04:45]:

Yeah.

Carrianne Dukes [00:04:45]:

But also elevators in our brand as well to give us that sort of step above. And then the secondary, that comes down to the sort of sponsorship that we get, Also, the sort of clients that we get from the podcast and just, yeah, just the learning point. But, yeah, the most important part, And our podcast has allowed us to do this, is building those relationships with our partners. So we constantly get our partners in, Which obviously is fantastic. We learn from them. They can talk about the latest updates in their sort of software, and also they can meet the team. But, yeah, building a relationship is absolutely critical. It's basic human psychology that people want to Help people that they like.

Carrianne Dukes [00:05:28]:

So, obviously, if they like you, they're more likely going to refer you leads or look after your business Or sponsor you for events. For example, I did a panel with James White from Klaviyo, about probably about a month ago now at the Ecommerce Expo, And he said for, like, for every 10,000 agencies he has, he only has 10 leads to be able to distribute them to.

Richard Hill [00:05:51]:

Yeah.

Carrianne Dukes [00:05:51]:

So how does he differentiate When there is so like, so many agencies are so similar Yeah. And it's probably, likely, and he probably wouldn't well, he probably wouldn't admit, actually. It's the ones he likes the most and he's got much more of a deeper relationship with.

Richard Hill [00:06:05]:

Well, before we hit hit record, I asked Carrie Anne to her 3 who her 3 favorite partners were. No doubt. Now, you know, we've done a 168 Nine episodes. That's just the podcast, let alone the probably circa a 100 tech partners that we have, but, obviously, we have a We have a, a core set of tech partners. But, obviously, in any industry, any niche, you know, if you're listening to this as a store, you know, you're thinking more, How does that relate to me, potentially? And I think the reality is, you know, if you're running a store, you have a tech partners as well as we have tech partners that we recommend. If you're running a store, You know, what review system are you using? What relationship do you have with them? What, shipping configuration system do you use? What, to, you know, blood the list goes on and the agency partnership relationships. So, you know, I think, relationships where, Yeah. You're selling a product.

Richard Hill [00:07:00]:

You're buying that product from somewhere. That relationship and partnership with that manufacturer, supplier, you know, whether that's a factory in China or your mate around the corner, who you're buying things from. But quite often, that's how quite a lot of these things start. You know, we start buying a few bits of x, y, and zed, you know, and then You grow, they grow, and their trust builds, and they want to do more business with you, and they want you know, they trust you. You know, over time, the type of business and people you are. We have some very interesting conversations about a lot of people in the industry, don't we? You know, all all light hearted, but ultimately, You've been a good firm to work with, a trusted partner. It's absolutely key, and that takes a bit of time, doesn't it?

Carrianne Dukes [00:07:40]:

Yeah. It Takes like, if you want those meaningful relationships, you've got to be willing to put in the time and to put in the resource. A lot of, the partnerships that we built, especially at the star we didn't know much about. And when we're referring sort of clients over to them, we've got to be able to trust them so that they deliver for our clients because, at the end of the day, our clients Trust us. Yeah. And if we refer them over and they have a bad experience, that can reflect badly in us, and that's just dangerous for an agency, for ecommerce. When as well, ecommerce have got so many stakeholders that they've got to answer to, even their customers. So building relationships with their customers is so important, if especially in the industry that we're in and the sort of climate we're in, where sort of people are sort of costing, like, really pinching their Kit Yeah.

Carrianne Dukes [00:08:27]:

And cutting down on costs. If you've got a sort of product that is similar to so many of it out there,

Richard Hill [00:08:34]:

Yeah.

Carrianne Dukes [00:08:34]:

And price is the only differentiating factor. You could be in trouble, but if you've built that brand

Richard Hill [00:08:39]:

Yeah.

Carrianne Dukes [00:08:39]:

And you've got that relationship with your customers, they're more likely going to be loyal To you. And it makes a huge difference.

Richard Hill [00:08:46]:

I think that is so key because the reality is whether there is a tech partner, platform, supplier. There's so many out there. Mhmm. So there's a lot of choice. You know? And I'm thinking at the moment, I've got a particular potential tech partner, And he must have emailed me 30 times in 3 weeks. I'm not exaggerating. If you're listening to this, I'm just on my way. I'm just down.

Richard Hill [00:09:08]:

You know, you seem like a nice champ. Your tech looks okay, but, you know, you just need to slow down. Yeah. You're just pushing too hard. You know, we're not going to introduce your tech to all of our business till we properly vetted it, checked what we can, Tested it on an environment. You know, it's just having a bit you know, some people's expectations are just a little bit, shall we say, Excessive or a little bit unrealistic? You know? It doesn't mean that he hasn't got brilliant tech, but there's a process and the time and, you know, it takes time, isn't it?

Carrianne Dukes [00:09:40]:

It's like dating though, isn't it? Like, if you're dating someone, you're not gonna spam them 30 times a day. And if you do, you need you need help.

Richard Hill [00:09:48]:

It's not gonna go well,

Carrianne Dukes [00:09:49]:

is it? You want to get to know them, sort of build that relationship, And, obviously, over time, it gets well, hopefully, it gets stronger opposed to breakdown.

Richard Hill [00:09:59]:

Yeah. Yeah. So, obviously, obviously, we've we've a 160 Eight guests on the podcast and, you know, and and many, many, many, relationships that we built, you built Mhmm. You know, as in the agency. But Along the way, I'm sure there's been a few, like, if you like mistakes, you know, and and thing learnings. What advice would you give to the guys learning from some of the mistakes you've made?

Carrianne Dukes [00:10:23]:

Yeah. There always is, isn't there? There's always mistakes, and that's that's the fun part of, like, learning and growing as an individual. But, yeah, I remember when we 1st started forming this sort of partnership ecosystem. You put, I think, as one of my rocks, like, build sort of 20 partnerships. And I was like, well, what hell does that even mean? So the biggest mistake I, a 100% think, that I did as I built too many too quick. It was too overwhelming for myself, for the team. Might you say there's so many out there, and it's like it was constantly jumping on calls, learning sort of, like, a 30 minute snapshot About them, so for example, say reviews, so 5 review partners, and then obviously having all that to distribute that to the team, well, how do they know who to refer to When they're so so slightly similar, like, we only have, like, obviously, a set of clients. We don't have a 1000000 clients for all these tech partners.

Carrianne Dukes [00:11:15]:

We've got to make sure that the sort of partners that we align with, like you say, they match our values and that they're actually useful instead of, just a waste of time because some people, they know how to sell a dream, but it's not about that. It's about delivering on the dream.

Richard Hill [00:11:30]:

Yeah. It's that long term relationship at the end of the day, isn't it? You know, if we're if we're recommending something that's clearly just a commercial decision Mhmm. But not the right decision. You know? Yeah. It's a very close knit industry. You know, people get found out for recommending something for maybe a commercial reason as opposed to an actual, Right. That's actually it. You know, it's they're a really good bunch of people.

Richard Hill [00:11:52]:

Yeah. And that's that's really important, isn't it? But, ultimately, the tech is priced correctly. It does what it should do. You know, it's scalable. It works with the different plat you know, for obviously, we've got a lot of clients on Shopify, etcetera, and, you know, in all the different platforms, but, You know, we've got certain platforms there. We've got more clients on, etcetera. You know, Bigcom, Shopify, Woo, Magento, or Adobe. You know? So It's a lot to take into consideration, not just, oh, this guy's really great, and, you know, x, y, zed.

Richard Hill [00:12:23]:

So he's taken that into account, isn't it? Know, it's so easy to sort of get sold the dream. We go to these expos Yeah. And there's 15 suppliers, if you like, potential suppliers, whether that's, you know, a product or tech. Mhmm. But it's doing that sort of well, you go going back to that dating. It's like, someone was a bit too good to Yeah. US Day. You know, he said, wait another minute.

Richard Hill [00:12:44]:

You know, let's let's maybe just ask a couple of other people that are using this technology or have bought from this supplier. Oh, okay. Yeah. He told me that, but he didn't actually do that, you know, a bit more of a a recall around around that supplier. So Podcasts, you know, we touched on that. Obviously, crazy amount of experience, you know, from launching a pub from an seed of an idea. It's going on. You know, might sort out.

Richard Hill [00:13:10]:

I think we're gonna do a podcast carryout. You know, going, oh,

Carrianne Dukes [00:13:13]:

why am I now gray in 3 years?

Richard Hill [00:13:16]:

And then fast forward to today, you know, know, we've got our own. This is another one of our studios in in our HQ in the Mosaic in Lincolnshire. And then, you know, we started, you know, in the in the office, which which was upstairs in this building, you know, with a little microphone, you know, and then we've scaled it to what it is now. But, obviously, a lot of Ecom Stores may be thinking of publishing a podcast. You know? Should they go for it? Should they do it?

Carrianne Dukes [00:13:44]:

I'm gonna do that classic sort of marketer answer, isn't it? It's it depends. So I think a podcast is incredible. It's been incredible And it is incredible as a sort of medium. But it just depends what's your why, what's your objective with the podcast, and you really need to sort of nail that down. Because because one of the things, obviously, that we did, which we found out, that sort of hindered the sort of growth probably in the 1st year was we didn't niche down enough. It was too general. So that obviously put us back in the sort of growth of what we wanted to achieve. So I think podcast is obviously a great medium.

Carrianne Dukes [00:14:20]:

I think you learn a lot from it. You can build a lot of relationships. In ecommerce, think of if you've got a retailer and you're selling, I don't know, Say clothes, for example. You can get your suppliers on there, build better relationships. You could get customers on there. Imagine that they would Really become advocates for your brand. You could get tell the stories of the people that work behind the sort of The website and people will form those relationships. It's a lot of opportunity, but you've got to remember your why, and you've got to remember what is your objective of the

Richard Hill [00:14:50]:

podcast for how you shape it. Mhmm. And, also, you've got

Carrianne Dukes [00:14:50]:

to think, how much can you cast for how you shape it. And, also, you've got to think how much can you commit resource and money and time to because it takes a very long time. And It's one of those things that I've spoken to a couple of other people that are wanting to grow podcasts, and they're like, well, why have I not grown enough yet? And I'm like, you're literally, like, 3 months in. Like, get obsessed with the content, the quality of the audio first, and then look at the numbers much later on is what I think.

Richard Hill [00:15:20]:

It's an interesting one because we've had quite a lot of podcasters on the podcast, and a few people have said to me, not a lot happened till we did a 100 Yes. When somebody said that to me when I'm on episode 14, I'm thinking Oh my gosh. Sort of thing. But it's so true. I think that number's, you know, sort of a made up number, but it's, you know, doing 3 or something 3 or 4 or 5 times. Like over the gym 6 times, it's not really gonna you know, it's not gonna make too much difference. You're gonna start to get a bit of pace because of that consistency, That sort of, commitment, buddy. Like you say, it's like what what is the get what is the ultimate aim? And you might not know straight out of the gate, but ultimately, Like you say, if you're building relationships Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:15:59]:

Which it comes back to that initial question, you're building relationships in your niche. Mostly good things come from that. If you're a you know, you sort of know what you're doing as a person and when you're interviewing them, sounds like I'm saying that myself. But, ultimately, you know, you're building relationships with people that you can help. They can maybe help you, and who knows what comes from that quite often, but Usually great things come from good conversations. We I think we both sort of on the same page with that, aren't we?

Carrianne Dukes [00:16:26]:

Yeah. Definitely. And we've had that with a few of our guests. Like, we've had them on the podcast, and then they've been fantastic, and we've got them in front of the team, and then then also educated the team. So we didn't initially have That sort of goal in mind when we got them on the podcast, but because we build our relationship and we was like, actually Yeah. This is really relevant, then the whole team benefited from it as well.

Richard Hill [00:16:47]:

Yeah. You just think listeners, you know, if you're you spend the next 20 weeks interviewing 20 key people in your industry It probably connects, you know, half that industry. But what you will then learn from speaking to those experts that have spent, You know, whether it's the last 5, 10, 20 years, with 20 conversations, collectively hundreds of years worth of expertise, but areas that Maybe slightly connect to your business that you didn't have that knowledge in. You're taking that back to your business and educating the wider team, Making change within the store because you've now decided that we're gonna focus on this, and we found a new supply for this because I spoke to Sizzle Search. I went to an event, got introduced to a guy, And this influencer messages and and mentioned as all these there, and then it just connects. So that it's surprising who you get to know. And, and I think what I would add to that is it's, you know, we're doing this podcast now, but what people wouldn't have heard is the, Yeah. The 15 minute chat we had before and the 15 minute chat we had afterwards.

Richard Hill [00:17:49]:

And I think to be able to get 45 minutes with somebody that's Really influential in in your space. But, you know, you get him on the podcast, but then you can have a chat with him about anything. You know? And some of the conversations we've had that The you've engineered, if you like, by getting them on. You know? And, you know, we've we've got a I know we've got a company coming on in a couple of weeks, a really, You know, a brand that we would absolutely love to work with. And it's not well, that's not the reason we've got them on, but just the way they operate is just so smooth and sort of people we wanna work with, and they say it as a gift, haven't they?

Carrianne Dukes [00:18:20]:

Yeah. They have.

Richard Hill [00:18:21]:

And it's just like, you know, to work with and be around people that, just because I said it as a gift, but I just we we saw the owner of the business do a talk, and we were both very inspired by her talk. I was like, oh, we wanna need to get her on. She's just great and get that company on. I just wanted to introduce you very quickly to our sponsors, Prisync. Now Prisync is a competitive price tracking and monitoring software That can dynamically change a product's prices on all sales channels. They work with brands such as Samsung, Sony, Suzuki to increase their online revenue. Now if you run Google Shopping, which I know a lot of you absolutely do, this software is absolutely key to accelerating profits. One of the reasons I recommend pricing to my clients because you can find out your competitors' pricing and stock availability all in one simple to understand dashboard giving you a huge competitive Vantage.

Richard Hill [00:19:07]:

Now if you have any inquiries and questions about this software or you're ready to get cracking, we have worked out a very, very special deal for our listeners where you can A free month's trial and then 25% off for the 1st 3 months. Head to econone.compricing And complete the inquiry form, and we will connect our listeners to the pricing team. Right. Let's head straight back to the episode. So okay. I'm convinced that I'm sitting here 168 weeks in or a bit bit bit bit, but, but, but what would be the sort of, you know, the listeners are thinking, right, okay, let's Let's have a go at this podcast thing. What would be some of the first steps I need to think about, launching a podcast?

Carrianne Dukes [00:19:45]:

I think it's deciding your sort of format. So is it gonna be an interview format like we have here? Is it going to be just you jumping on and talking about a certain subject And really sort of nailing that. And also the commitment that they can do. So can they do 1 a week? Can they do 1 a month? Obviously, it's very time consuming, but you need that consistency

Richard Hill [00:20:08]:

Consistency.

Carrianne Dukes [00:20:08]:

To grow and for your listeners that, oh, it's it's Monday at 6 AM. That podcast will be that new podcast will be live. I'll listen to it. So that's absolutely critical, like, in anything when you wanna grow in marketing, consistency Yeah. Is the most important thing. And then also the equipment, you don't need, obviously, top tier equipment. Like you said, we started, a lot of them on Zoom, literally, and it was good Quality. Obviously, you want it as high as possible, but when you're starting out, just getting on, just learning the actual skill of actually just Communicating, it's it's hard.

Carrianne Dukes [00:20:42]:

It is hard. When I chatted with Mike, I was actually keeping the conversation going. It's a whole another skill in itself. So yeah. And then also, one thing that we use, which I think has been made it the whole process much easier is podcast.co. So it's a software that basically you just upload your podcast, you upload your episode to, and then it distributes it to all the platforms just with One click. And I know there's others out there that people use. Yeah.

Carrianne Dukes [00:21:08]:

So it's just making sure you use the one that's relevant for them. Yeah. But, yeah, I think that has just made the process much easier.

Richard Hill [00:21:16]:

So we've got made the decision. Okay. We're doing the podcast, but To do that is committing to that consistent launch deadline, so whether that's, you know, we've we've gone for every Monday. Yep. But we haven't done every Monday, you know, and then to be honest, that's you know, initially, when we missed the 1st Monday, I was a bit like, oh, the world's gonna end. But I tell you what, nothing happened. No. I think the 1st year we did every Monday by Christmas week, 2 weeks.

Richard Hill [00:21:42]:

And then, you know, life business, you know, business gotta run, you know, and And and things, you know, holidays and sickness and things like that, you know, there's been the odd time we're all gone. Or even even 3 weeks ago, I messaged you and said, carry on. I've got COVID. And you were like, what? We had 2 people 3 2 people booked in. Yeah. Fortunately, it was People we know very well are the team and things like that. So, you know, I had to sort of throw you under the bus that day to dial a couple of other colleagues to step in, it was fantastic. You know? So we mixed up the podcast with different hosts and things, and that's the format I'm hoping we're gonna, we're gonna keep, Promoting.

Richard Hill [00:22:19]:

But we got that consistency of of launch, but if the odd day doesn't fly, it's not the end of the world. But really try to your darndest to stick to that, and then, that quality of that audio, and I think people get a bit wrapped up in the tech. You know? And then I I get a bit obsessed with things being, like, to good, if you like, and then I don't do. But I think, you know, for circa 50, 60 quid, a good microphone we launched with a Snowball mic that I'd had for about 6 years, and my MacBook, which is sat the same MacBook I've got sat here, You know? And then we got locked down. I'm in my I'm in my kitchen. I've got this MacBook on a stack of books, so it's level eye level rather than me looking at the camera angle. In my kitchen. I've got my snowball, Mike.

Richard Hill [00:23:03]:

But we've got you know, we organ you organized some of the biggest names in SEO, which really sort of jump started. And I think That's the other side. They saw a guest booking. Mhmm. Like, it's I think some people can overcomplicate. They, oh, never gonna get any guests, but Everyone's just people, aren't they?

Carrianne Dukes [00:23:20]:

Yeah. Well, human, aren't they? Yeah. The people that you look up to, you know, oh my god. They're they're still human. Like, wanna help people. They wanna learn, and they wanna share their mission as well.

Richard Hill [00:23:29]:

I mean, we've had some just incredible, yes, superstars in our eyes in the in the industry. But I think listening to the podcast, you know, when you think about your industry, no matter what you sell, there's gonna be some stars if you like, to you, you know, that are your sort of Heroes in the industry. I know I've got very many in in the SEO, in the digital marketing space, and the majority that have been on the podcast. And then when you get them on, it's just having a chat with them with Black of Me, because you know the industry well, so you've got a lot of, you know, whatever industry in you're in, you're gonna no doubt know it very well that we do know our industry well and the, you know, so It's this great conversation with, you define actually. What a nice chap sort of thing or a, you know, lady or whatnot. So any any top tips for getting guests then?

Carrianne Dukes [00:24:12]:

I think it's obviously, it's much easier if you've already got the relationship with them. And also, if you can, ask them in person. I find you'd get a much better Sponsored. So, obviously, if you're at an event, just literally go up to their their stand or anything and just ask them now afterwards.

Richard Hill [00:24:25]:

Till they say yes.

Carrianne Dukes [00:24:27]:

Just reply please. Pretty please. And also, use your connections that might have already been on the podcast. So for example, our first guest, which you were sort of learning to, was Greg Gifford, who is an incredible human being in SEO. Yeah. And I literally just messaged him on LinkedIn and he replied. And Andy, honestly, he's our head of technical. He was like But fangirling, he was like, I can't believe you had great.

Richard Hill [00:24:51]:

It's a rubber fan.

Carrianne Dukes [00:24:52]:

Yeah. But recently, I just reached back out to him. What was that? Might say 3 years ago?

Richard Hill [00:24:56]:

Yeah.

Carrianne Dukes [00:24:57]:

I emailed him literally a couple of months ago like, hey, can you introduce me to anyone at SEMrush? And he did. And then we've just recently obviously had someone from Semrush on the podcast. So, yeah, just using that and that network Yeah. Was really powerful. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:25:13]:

Yeah. So it's like a so you've you've got a guest on. Mhmm. You've stopped the recording, and, obviously, then you have a little chat about, you know, what some you know, depending on whether, you know, what what you wanna talk about, but, you know, hey, podcast guest. Have you have you anybody you think might would enjoy Coming on the podcast as well. So each guest could potentially recommend a guest or 2, you know, and and typically, you know, most of the guests are pretty well connected if they, Are there are there a speaker or, you know, the authority in the niche or a supplier or a tech or, you know, most people that will probably come on know then somebody else by the nature of the role they're in, and it sort of spirals because it yeah. Some weeks we had some fun and games where we've got, we've got new podcast. We've got new podcast.

Richard Hill [00:25:56]:

You know, it's like on a it's a Wednesday. We've got a podcast that goes live on a Monday. We've had those days. You know? So we we've had those days. You will have those days, but, You know, you either obviously try and find somebody, or you might have to miss the odd week. Obviously, don't really wanna do that, and we don't really encourage that, but Not the world won't end, but, you know, I think that launch piece, you know so would you recommend having so many podcasts in the bank for for launching a podcast.

Carrianne Dukes [00:26:23]:

Yeah. I think you should always have podcasts in the bank throughout the whole sort of process. It just massively decreases pressure and the worry, and you can make sure that the quality and the whole marketing behind it is much more strategized Yeah. As well. One thing that I did do once when I tried to get a guest on was I actually contacted the sort of, like, customer support of a retailer, and I just Contacted them like, hi. Got a podcast. Interested in getting your sort of head of digital on. And they actually did forward me the email of the head of digital.

Carrianne Dukes [00:26:55]:

So, yeah, that was one sort of a tactic that I did, which is a bit different, but, obviously, like I say, it's better to tie on connections. But, yeah, I think we start with 5 in the bank, from memory. But, yeah, I I would always say aim to have at least a month's worth A podcast in the bank, for sure.

Richard Hill [00:27:13]:

It's like that, isn't it? Because I know some months we've had not all week, 15 on, and then another week, we've had 7 or 8, and it's almost a bit too much you're talking about something now live. And if it doesn't go live for 2 months, it can lose it. Yeah. You know, that relationship you built in the hour with the guests. So I thought I was I sort of I think 4 weeks is a good spot. Yeah. Good spot. Gives you time to prepare for a launch.

Richard Hill [00:27:33]:

Mhmm. So, you know, we get asked, you know, going back to that sort of, commercial side. Also, ultimately, we've got to grease the wheels of commerce and, you know, pay the bills, you know. But normally, you know, I think, you know, from building the relationships, obviously, different commercial things can happen whether that's referrals, a recommendation, You know, a new supplier, an idea, you know, but ultimately, with podcasts, you can get sponsors. Yeah. You know, I know from the early days, Very early on, we got the m said, oh, can we respond to the podcast? And we've been we're very careful as we are selecting tech partners Listen. And who we work with and who we refer to, we're pretty selective. We've got that, I guess, luxury, Where, you know, we've had a few people say, how can we respond to podcasts? And we've gone, that doesn't really fit with our sort of ethos or our sort of brand.

Richard Hill [00:28:29]:

So we said no. But then, probably, I think, circa about a year, year or so ago, we was like, right. We really wanna up the game on the podcast. But, ultimately, there is a substantial cost when you start having studios and full time people and producers and things like that. So obviously having sponsorship Mhmm. Helps, you know, that contributes to that or more than contributes to that. Any advice about getting a sort of, Sponsorship. And how did you secure our sponsorship?

Carrianne Dukes [00:28:58]:

Yes. So it's a great story. I think there's 2 ways which you can really monetize a Podcast. Obviously, we've gone the sponsorship route, which I'll sort of really go into in a second. But the other one is like a sort of tiered system, which I works really well. So it's obviously we've got the podcast. We've got, we release 1 episode a week. But what you can do is you can have different tiers of your sort of Audience where they pay you, I don't know, like £5 a month or £10 a month, and they get sort of extra added value.

Richard Hill [00:29:25]:

Mhmm.

Carrianne Dukes [00:29:25]:

So they might get sort of an extra podcast release. They might get, access to a community Slack channel of sort of experts in that sort of field. And I think that's definitely something that's really worth investigating first of monetizing it Sort of it's, completely scalable, whereas sponsorship obviously get a set amount and they expect a certain amount of return, which is Fantastic, and it's allowed us to grow. But we actually sort of started the process by sort of reaching out to our sort of partners that we sort of built Those relationships with, and we created a wholesale proposal outlining the benefit and the opportunity that sponsorship has because it really does, get you in front of the people, that you want to get in front of in that one to 1 sort of conversation. So, yeah, we created a really in-depth proposal, which had the opportunities. It also told them what they got from the sponsorship, so what return they was expecting to get, and obviously just much more detail in that sort of sense. And then we went to our partners, but unfortunately, that was looking really but they basically then shifted, their focus from sort of brand awareness to sort of more lead generation. Mhmm.

Carrianne Dukes [00:30:37]:

So they There was a lot obviously going on in the industry at the time as well. So they started to put all their budgets into events. Really was actually like roundtables and stuff like that, but they thoroughly believed in the opportunity. They said, obviously, potentially maybe something in the future, which is obviously very exciting. But what we then did is we just, created a LinkedIn post And just pushed it out there. And then amazing, this amazing guy called Birch from Price Inc. He'd been following us in our activities for While also seeing the podcast, seeing our marketing, seeing the agency growth, and he identified that we fit his business very well. So he's a competitor pricing software.

Richard Hill [00:31:24]:

Mhmm.

Carrianne Dukes [00:31:24]:

And obviously, we're we a lot of our agencies Google Shopping, So that works really well. So we have ecommerce, and he really wanted to make a mark in the sort of UK market and build his brand. So we worked with him really closely, to really shape exactly, obviously, what he wanted and what benefited us, with obviously, he got the podcast Sponsorship, but he also got event sponsorship, and obviously was able to have those conversations with our clients to help him Grow his business and, grow the sort of podcast as well. So it's really, I think, it's really showcasing the opportunity Yeah. To the potential sponsor And really showing them the return that they can get, from the sort of get go.

Richard Hill [00:32:10]:

Yeah. One answer. Mhmm. That's a lot of stuff.

Carrianne Dukes [00:32:13]:

Yes.

Richard Hill [00:32:14]:

But I think if you're brand listening now, it's not as simple as, oh, we've had 50 listens, or we've had a 100 lessons or a 1000 lessons. You know, it's what a tendency is one of those one of those lessons worth to a potential sponsor. So for us, it's just as an example. You know, if somebody was listening to this podcast And we recommended a platform to somebody to replatform. A replatform might be Fireground. It won't be fireground, but it might be a 1,000,000 pound replatform. Well, a 1,000,000 pound replatform, obviously, there's a lot of money being made, not by us, you know, by the platforms and the development. So that one lead potential, you know, is a massive, massive fee for somebody.

Carrianne Dukes [00:32:59]:

Mhmm.

Richard Hill [00:33:00]:

So I think don't underestimate a smaller group. You know, you see these massive podcasts, you know, and podcasters that have got, you know, Number 1 on iTunes, 5,500, 5,000,000 views a month. Don't worry about that. In your niche, in your bubble, in your niche, you know, which is what we found. We know that 1 referral from our podcast, you know, I'm I I know it ref it will equate to 100 of 1,000 of pounds in theory for the right. And so when you're thinking about your podcast listeners, you know, that you're going to launch, potentially, you're thinking about, you know, what would one lead, And then how are you gonna package that sponsorship up? It's not just about as as Carrie Anne mentioned, it's not just about that mentions on the podcast. We know we mentioned our sponsor on all the collateral with the episode. But then we package that up with our we do we have an event schedule.

Richard Hill [00:33:51]:

So you go to ecomone.comforward/events, I believe Yeah. You'll find a series of events. If you listen to this, we've got a big event coming up in January 24th, at Lincolnshire Cathedral with 4 ecommerce stores. There'll be about 50 stores, 5 or 6 tech partners. So for the partners and the people that are involved in the sponsorship, they're involved in that event, and they get access to, to that event, stat that sort of wow day that's gonna be an industry day. And we're gonna have 50, 60, or 50, agents, 50 merchants there. So that's, you know, that's just packaging up something with the podcast. So if you're an ecom store, how we're gonna package up sponsorship? You know, they can have ownership on certain categories, subcategories, and emails and email headers.

Richard Hill [00:34:37]:

And, you know, if you've got a big email database. And you're putting your brands in that in that email. You know, they can you can package that up within there as well.

Carrianne Dukes [00:34:46]:

Yeah. I think as well, what you've got to think about is as well is what adds value to your audience and your listeners. You don't just wanna be getting sponsors from anything that will just annoy them, and they'll just, god's sake, they're just trying to sell to me again. Humans are so smart nowadays. They get so bombarded all the time with so much They're not they're not stupid. So if you're just getting sort of sponsors that aren't relevant to them, they just sort of switch off. So when you're sort of matching up, you've Really gotta make sure that the sponsor is right for your listeners.

Richard Hill [00:35:15]:

We will probably have 5 requests to sponsor for 1 that we may take or the 2 that we may take. So, yeah, I think, you know, it comes down to protecting the brand, working with people you wanna work with for product services that you you that you sort of and and and Work and your like, and so I think final question on the podcasting, and then we'll move on. So There's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of podcasts out there. I saw the top 40 ecommerce podcasts. Is that right? When we started this, there was, like, 6 of us. Yeah. So, you know, what would you say to those guys where, you know, is, is it a saturated market when it comes to podcasting?

Carrianne Dukes [00:35:56]:

It's, it's obviously it's very competitive. It is like anything, it is really competitive, but there's still an opportunity there. Mhmm. A 100%. And there's obviously as long as your content and your sort of audience is good, people wanna listen to it. They wanna hear different perspectives. Tips. They wanna learn about new different things.

Carrianne Dukes [00:36:16]:

So it's just really about identifying the opportunity that's relevant to your business and also Understanding that it will take a long time. And I always think if, obviously, if we have if you imagine if you're in a room with someone And there's, like, a 100 people here, and you're doing a talk for an hour. That's incredible. But that's effectively what you're doing at a much greater scale through a podcast. Cass, if you've got a 1,000 downloads, of an episode, that episode took you obviously 1 hour to record, probably the team about a day to edit and push live. But a Thousand people. That that's incredible. And those are the sort of things and the way you sort of need to think.

Richard Hill [00:36:56]:

It's powerful. Yeah. Piece if you Imagine standing on stage and talking to a 1000 people. That's quite potentially a scary thing. We're to sit here now, me and you having this conversation, And a thousands of people thousands of people wanna hear this. Yeah. It's pretty loud, isn't it? Where if I say, carry on, can you just jump on that stage and then to podcasting and sponsorship and partnerships to these 1,000 people.

Carrianne Dukes [00:37:20]:

10,000. You know? A 100 of

Richard Hill [00:37:22]:

That's it's a whole different thing, but ultimately, you know, as a as a, Yeah. For me, my marketing, you know, when when I'm when asked, what is marketing? What's the purpose of marketing? It's about getting people talking about your brand. Mhmm. Well, if you're on a podcast and a 1000 people or whether it's a100, a1000, a1000000, no. That's not that's not us, but, you know, thousands of people listen to our episodes. It's a powerful thing, isn't it?

Carrianne Dukes [00:37:46]:

Yeah. You're literally in their ear on the sort of, like, day to day activity. Like, that's so intimate, and that's so Powerful. Like, obviously, if you're on social media, people are just scrolling, aren't they? So Mhmm. It's it's not as meaningful as podcasting as a

Richard Hill [00:38:00]:

sort of digital marketing channel. Sia, it's

Carrianne Dukes [00:38:00]:

been an absolute pleasure. Channel.

Richard Hill [00:38:03]:

So it's been an absolute pleasure.

Carrianne Dukes [00:38:05]:

Thank you for my remarriage.

Richard Hill [00:38:07]:

But I can't help but think, you know, as a A marketing manager listening to this. They've got a lot on. Probably the, you know, I I love to see these job ads. Marketing manager are quiet. Must know. SEO, BBC, podcasting. Yeah. Right.

Richard Hill [00:38:21]:

Hang on. That's 9 roles in 1. You know? What would you say It's the most important aspect of being a marketing manager for an ecom store brand.

Carrianne Dukes [00:38:32]:

I think it comes down to prioritization. I think that's the most important part and the strategy behind it. To g behind it. So it's looking at what actually generates the results that you're after. You can do a 1000000 and 1 different things. You can be on TikTok. Yeah. I could spend my whole week creating TikTok videos Yeah.

Carrianne Dukes [00:38:48]:

But at the end of the day, that's not gonna get us the leads Yeah. That we require to grow our business, like creating really in-depth educational events like you say, the 1 on the 24th January. So it's really prioritizing where you need to spend your time, spend your resource, and spend your budget to really make And get results, and build your brand, and then also generate sort of new clients as well.

Richard Hill [00:39:11]:

I guess, you know, I we know the answer to this question in our business, But, what is the number one thing in your business? Yeah. There's a and we I'm not gonna say what it is on this podcast. We'll save that for a bit of a bit, But as a self and carrier, I'm on the management team here at the in the in the business and then 3 other people are in the team in the management team, and we have one thing That is key to the success of this business. So, you know, there's a 100 things that Carrie Anne could be doing and and a marketing Magic Cooper doing and, you know, somebody involved in marketing, but what's the one thing, something for you guys to have a think about? And, I think, what's going on about? But, so book recommendation. As you know, every episode. This is such a surprise. 68 episode a 100 68 recommendations. I think somebody said no.

Richard Hill [00:40:02]:

I'm not gonna I'm not gonna recommend a book. I'm gonna recommend a at Theo and Mozart. Okay.

Carrianne Dukes [00:40:06]:

Yeah. A bit different. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:40:09]:

What book would you recommend to our listeners?

Carrianne Dukes [00:40:11]:

So mine's a bit of a different one, to be fair, and it's something I've just recently read, but it's, the myth of normal. So it's by I think I can never pronounce his name. It's like Gabe Matt, he's like a physician. So, basically, it's about how stress can input to your body, and how unserved dealt with trauma impacts your body, your health, and, sort of your quality of life. So it was it's really interesting. And one thing that I found really fascinating was the amount of autoimmune diseases which were caused by, like, childhood sort of development. But I think, yeah, The and stress as well, the impact that they can have in on your whole entire life, so having better sort of coping mechanisms with that. But, yeah, it's really good for sort of life development and also just obviously nobody wants to be stressed.

Carrianne Dukes [00:41:00]:

And we live in a very sort of stressful Full busy environment. Yeah. So you want to have those sort of skills, and that sort of mindset to not obviously impact your health negatively.

Richard Hill [00:41:11]:

I've got a trip coming out, so I might I might add that to the, the reading list as as we go. Yeah. Well, thanks so much. That has been fantastic. Thank you.

Carrianne Dukes [00:41:21]:

No. Thank you.

Richard Hill [00:41:22]:

That wanna find out more about what you do at eComOne, what we do at eComOne, Maybe those aspiring marketeers and marketing, you know, managers, you know, we're very open with our sharing and knowledge in the in the agency. And maybe those brands that think they're possibly a fit for sponsorship, but what's the what's the best way to reach out to you, Carrianne?

Carrianne Dukes [00:41:42]:

So I would say, yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn. So it's Carrianne Dukes, carrianne@ecomone.com.

Richard Hill [00:41:56]:

Brilliant. Well, thanks for coming on the show.

Carrianne Dukes [00:41:58]:

No. Thank you, Richard. It's been a pleasure.

Richard Hill [00:42:05]:

If you enjoyed this episode, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this podcast. You're always the 1st to know when a new episode is released. Have a fantastic day, and I'll see you on the next one.