E49: Mareike Turner

Richard Hill
Hi and welcome to another episode of eCom@One, and today's guest is Mareike Turner, who is the Director of Operations and CX at Payability, and an experienced Etsy Account Manager. How are you doing?

Mareike Turner
Hi, Richard. I'm doing well. Good to meet you.

Richard Hill
Nice to meet you. So you were just saying you're in lovely New York right now. I'm over here in the UK along-

Mareike Turner
Exactly. So for me, it's still early in the day, still sipping on my first coffee, but excited to be here.

Richard Hill
Nice to have you. So I think it'd be great to kick off and tell the listeners what ignited your passion for eCommerce and what got you into eCommerce?

Mareike Turner
That's a great question. I could probably talk about that all day, but I'll just give you the recap about my background and what brought me here to New York and to working with Payability these days. So I grew up in the very north of Germany, small town. Four hundred people, not a lot to do there. So I decided to move to Hamburg, which is still in the north of Germany. And Hamburg is a city that is really known for being a trading city, being a trading hub and has a really big port. So I decided to take a job in like, offline trading, basically import export industry. So my career was always in in trading, not eCommerce back in the days, but this offline trading, importing stuff from Asia all over the world and distributing within Europe. And then six years ago, I had the opportunity to move to New York and I found a dream job at Etsy. And it was really, it was really a dream come true. Working for this tech company that was still in the Start-Up mode. They had an awesome company culture and they had an awesome mission that I really learnt to appreciate, and that was helping eCommerce sellers grow their businesses, grow their stores, getting their brands and their their merchandise out there. And that was really what got me into eCommerce.

Richard Hill
Wow.

Mareike Turner
Yeah. And then -

Richard Hill
Sorry go on.

Mareike Turner
And then what brought me to Payability is really taking this this passion and all the customer focus that I learnt at Etsy. And then I joined Payability to elevate their customer experience and make sure that the eCommerce sellers on other marketplaces, then Etsy also have a great experience and can grow their shops and their businesses.

Richard Hill
So we've got like a double whammy today on the on the podcast today. So we've got this sort of CX expertise. And then this obviously on the ground experience working with Etsy sellers for several years as well. So it's like a double, double episode in one.

Mareike Turner
Exactly. And what was really great about working at Etsy and I was on the account management team, so I was working with the top sellers on the platform. And I remember the first time that I met one of my sellers that I was working with, and they came to the office and it was really, for the whole team, it was like meeting a celebrity because we saw them being featured over the blog and we had like all these great videos with them and then meeting them in person, it was such a great experience. We had lunch together and she was telling us about her little online store and she started talking like 'Yeah my business, it really took off, but it's still small. I have 20 employees' and we were like, you have 20 employees? That is not small. So that was really impressive. And like I remember, interactions like those were so great. And it really showed us the person behind the brand and the person behind the shop.

Richard Hill
I just love it when you get to meet people like that, so, sort of unassuming. Just like 'Oh, yeah, well, we got this little business and, you know, we sell a few things online' and it's like what!

Mareike Turner
Exactly.

Richard Hill
So obviously, and now you're at Payability. So tell the listeners what Payability is all about.

Mareike Turner
Payability is a growing Fintech company and we've been founded, headquartered in New York City. We've been around since 2015. And our mission is really in line with what Etsy did. It's helping eCommerce sellers grow their business. And that is the thing that I learnt from Etsy, is that there are so many challenges when you start your online store, when you're selling online. One of that is that is not the coolest part about it, not the fun, the most fun part about it. But it's financing. Like, how do you get your shop to grow? How do you get money for advertising? How do you get money for inventory? And that is what Payability does and how we help eCommerce sellers grow. So we provide 2 financing options. One is daily cash flow and one is growth capital. So it's called our instant access and instant advance. And that is really this one pillar to running your online business, making sure that you have the proper financing that you need to get to the next level.

Richard Hill
So, yeah, it's not something we talk about too much. And I think it's, it's you know, we talk a lot about marketing and driving sales and, you know, and conversions and data and things like that on the podcast, and mental health. But bottom line is, you know, cash flow and running a business are fundamentals, of running any business, you know, cash flow and that sort of that side of things. So if I'm an eCommerce store listening to this episode right now, you know what? How could you specifically help me or them? So you say you sort of open, you know, the ability for them to have funds in effect, but how does that work exactly? So I'm an eCom store. You know, I'm doing I don't know, I've got a little eCom store doing a million pounds let's say. A million, 100 grand a month, you know, with a hundred grand a month, 1.2 million or whatever, whatever it is, a million pound mark a year, dollars, pounds, whatever. You know, exactly how would it work with Payability then? How do you help me with cash flow?

Mareike Turner
Great question. So what you would do is you would simply go to our website? No, first your decision would be, hey, I need financing. I want to get to the next level. And this is what I spend my money on. And then you would do your research and you would. Yeah, you would find Payability online. You can go to our website and you can just sign up. And then it really depends on what your goal is. Do you really want to, like, improve your cash flow? Then you would probably sign up for instant access programme, which is accelerating your daily cash. We have really minimal requirements. So with your one hundred thousand pounds, dollar, whatever store you would be fine, minimum requirements are three months of selling history and two thousand in sales per month. And then if you were to really bring your business to the next level, you say, hey, I have this advertising campaign that I want to invest in or I have this great opportunity to buy more inventory, then you would apply for instant advance which is a cash advance. So we would give you money upfront and get repaid from your from your marketplace.

Richard Hill
So the first one is based on, or they're both based on what you're selling already on Amazon?

Mareike Turner
Exactly. It's based on sales history. So that is also where we make it easy for eCommerce sellers to get this kind of financing. Because if you are, especially when you're starting out and when you're a small business and you go to your bank and you explain them, your eCommerce business, they're probably, 'what are you doing?'. They're not, they don't have as much expertise as we do. So we don't do credit checks. We just evaluate you based on your selling history.

Richard Hill
So this is purely based on your history in your account, which they, you know, well, you know, that is genuine because it's genuine. You know, it's the sales that have come through your account. So there's two options there. So there's two options there, which is a smaller one or a larger cash injection. Yeah.

Mareike Turner
Exactly. And that is really the mission and what Payability does and over the five years or six years that we've been in business, we have a few thousand sellers and we've provided over three billion in financing. So just putting that number out there, that is really what we do, what we focus on. And it's so rewarding to see these eCommerce businesses grow. And there's nothing better for me, like I'm on the CX team, I run the CX team, seeing our customers succeed, that is really what we want to do.

Richard Hill
Yeah, I mean, that's that's an amazing idea I think, that ability, you know, it's you know, it's tied into what you're selling already. So in theory, it should be affordable. You're lending an amount that is realistic rather than, you know, it's based on facts of what's been sold already. So, you know, cash flow is something that probably doesn't get talked about too much in the industry. And I think that running any business, obviously, cash flow is absolutely key. You know, ultimately, I think no matter what you read, when businesses get into trouble or ultimately maybe you have to close it, it's quite often cash flow is the, is the dirty word that gets mentioned and is quite often the reason why businesses don't succeed because they run out of money. And that's even very successful and very great idea, you know businesses that have got cracking ideas, cracking products, cracking team, but unfortunately, they run out of money. You know, you know, all the cash flow, it gets squeezed. So what tips would you give for the listeners that are listening in to help them sort of manage cash flow more effectively or anything that they can do to sort of, you know, help them when it comes to cash flow?

Mareike Turner
Great question, and there is so many aspects to it, and if you, let me answer the question that way, when you start your eCommerce business out, it usually, from what I've seen, the sellers that I've been working with, is they have this great idea, they have this great opportunity to get inventory and sell it online. They don't necessarily think about it as their business from the beginning. It's more like this idea, like, oh, I'll try this out, maybe it takes off. And then what I've seen is when you approach it that way, it's and then does take off, it makes it harder for you down the road. So my suggestion would always be, is if you're really thinking about your idea and you think like, hey, it might take off, treat it like a business right away, like have your budget planning, have your inventory management, have your sources for help, who is my accountant? How do I do my taxes? How do I do all these things? Treat it like a business right away. And then also, think about financing. Get help that way and then really be smart and have a have a budget and make sure that you have your expenses, that you know what you're spending, that you know what is coming in, analyse your inventory. And there are so many tools out there. So that is why I'm saying get help. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, use the community out there, use tools out there. And then regardless of what platform you're selling on, whether it's Amazon, Shopify, Etsy, use the community. Online sellers, you know best, they talk to each other all day long and get help that way. Join groups on Facebook, use the resources that marketplaces put out there. Like, again, you're not alone. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, like you use the resources that you got.

Richard Hill
Yeah, I think it's an interesting one. I think, you know, the people that are listening to this episode now, maybe ask them, you know, okay, so are you doing a monthly cash flow forecast? And I would imagine there's a high percentage of people that are 'Oh, OK. Now I've heard about that. I've heard about that. And I know I should be doing it, but we don't do it', you know, 'Are we doing quarterly management accounts? Are we doing monthly management accounts?' Obviously, there's a lot of variation in size of eCommerce stores that are listening to this episode. But ultimately, you know, you're trying to be successful and run a successful business. And I think far too often eCommerce store owners get wrapped up in, you know, that 'gotta sell more, gotta sell more'. But behind that, you've got to have a solid business basics in place. You know, cash flow will cripple a business. It's inevitable. If it's not, you know, if you know, if there's a, if something was to go wrong where, you know, a certain supplier or certain customer, you know, had a problem or, you know, there's a challenge with the money side of things. You know, having that cash flow in place and have a real deep understanding of your cash flow is so key. The amount of times I've seen, you know, very, very strong businesses that we've worked with in our agencies that are doing, you know, hundreds of thousands once a month, you know, then all of a sudden it's sort of like, oh, they're closing, why are they closing? They're doing, you know, whatever it may be, 200 grand a month. Okay. You know, they were working on such tight margins and they were just chasing the sales, chasing the sales, rather than understanding the bigger picture of margins and cash flow and, you know, the profitability ultimately, making sure that profit is is is going back into either the bank or, you know, if you are reinvesting it into stocks in the business of marketing, that you just always keep an eye on that, you know, cash flow amount to make sure that as you grow and grow and grow, you're not just growing the pain or growing the issue. You know, you're also you're managing the other side of things as well. So, yeah, I think, yeah. So many communities out there, isn't there? And sort of discussions around, you know, I think, I have to admit, you know, a real good book I've read to do with sort of money is this, its a bit of an offshoot really, but it's Profit First. It's a real good book for any business I would recommend around sort of managing your cash, coming into the business and some very basic principles there about what to do with your money when you get it in the business and making sure that you're getting paid ultimately, you know, as an eCommerce store owner, it's all right spending, you know, you've got the big warehouse and you're doing a thousand orders a day and you're doing the millions in turnover. But are you getting paid? You know, are you getting paid? Or are you just you just earning a few dollars an hour because you're doing 100 hours a week or whatever it may be, you know, so making sure you're getting paid. And there's a lot more to this isn't there really, absolutely is.

Mareike Turner
And all great points. And that reminds me really working with these Etsy sellers. And we each like all the account managers had around like one hundred, one hundred fifty accounts, so sellers that we were regularly checking in with. And then we also one thing that we did was organising seller meet ups with the sellers in the area and then getting these sellers together and hearing them just talk about all these pain points that you're mentioning and just like, OK, how do you do this cash flow management? Like, how do you make sure that you're actually getting paid? And that brings me back to the point that there is so much more to it. And I have so much admiration for everyone who is running the eCommerce business because it's more than just listing a bunch of stuff then sitting back and waiting for it to sell, like it's it's a real business. And I think that is what a lot of people are missing. They just see it as a side gig. But no it's real. You need so much knowledge and expertise to really be successful.

Richard Hill
Great. Great. So obviously, you are focussed very much on the on the CX side of Payability. So could you maybe talk the listeners through some of the things you've done to improve your own CX in the business, that they might be able to think, oh, maybe something we could do or something they could get some snippets from?

Mareike Turner
Great question. And yeah, that's my that's my expertise. And I'm happy to talk about that all day long. So what I did at Payability -

Richard Hill
You've got 10 minutes.

Mareike Turner
And I think that is something that, yeah, every business can take away, really, if you're, if you're hiring your team or your support team or whatever you want to, you want to call it, make sure that you hire great people and people that genuinely care and that are the right fit for this kind of role. Working directly with your customers, because that's the same thing for an eCommerce business or for Payability, without our customers, we don't have a business. So make sure that you listen to your customers, that you hire people who can really help them. And I, my team is still small, but 30 percent of my team, they either are a small business owner themselves or they had a small business in the past. So just having this this expertise and this background within my team really makes sure that we as a company understand what our customers want. And then what I did at Payability, and we're still this small company, we're 70 people, and we really built this this company culture of relaying customer feedback in real time. So if our customers complain to us, they can know that all the stakeholders within the company will hear their feedback, the good, the bad, the ugly. So there is really no shame to it, it's like we take all the customer feedback really, really serious, because at the end of the day, when the customers voice their concerns, it's because they want to help you build a better product and they want to help you improve, there's nothing worse than a customer who has a problem who doesn't tell us who just goes silent like we prefer, actually, tell us. We'll make it better. We take it serious. And I think that is something that translates to every business. If you're running your eCommerce store, customers are complaining about packaging, shipping times. Take that serious, review your processes. Is there something that you can improve? Because at the end of the day, the customer complains because they care and they want to help you make this better.

Richard Hill
So obviously you're getting, you're getting sort of feedback on the fly and regardless in any in any eCommerce story, people are saying, oh, I've not had this, or, that's probably when there's issues that have happened quite often. So obviously, they are a massive priority to make sure that action is taken. And that feedback is really is really sort of discussed within the same and and things are put in place to make sure the things don't happen again. Before we get to that point, obviously, you're saying, sort of asking for feedback from your customers. So, you know, what's the best way to go about that? Would it be sending questionnaires or what sort of what sort of mechanisms in place to get that feedback?

Mareike Turner
Yeah, we had a, we had a Fintech company, we have our all processes in place. So we work with the ticketing system. And after each interaction, customers are being surveyed. It's a quick survey. Are you happy with the service? And also, do you have any feedback on the product? So for us, we are Fintech, the giving out the money is the Fintech, the fin part. Building the dashboard, building reporting and making sure that customers have an interface that they can use, that that makes sense to them because providing financing for multiple eCommerce channels can be quite complex. So we're always looking for ways to make it better, to make it simpler. And that is why we have this two step survey in place after each interaction. And then when the customer experience team is on the phone with customers and they are really vocal and they tell us about their pain points and those are good opportunities to do small customer explorers like, OK, so what would you want to see? And that is really since we are still in this Start-Up mode and we are still a company, we can take this time to provide quality interactions and that helps us build better product and be a better company.

Richard Hill
Yeah, that's great. I think, so often missed you know, we've got the sale. Let's move on. Well, hang on a minute. You know obviously you've got a lifetime value in that customer. But more than that. And keep improving, keep improving with feedback from that customer. Fantastic. So Etsy, let's jump back to Etsy for a minute. So it's not something I've ever - I don't know if I should say this out loud, but I don't think I've ever bought anything from -

Mareike Turner
Oo okay.

Richard Hill
I know, I said it out loud. I have said it out loud. So how does it work exactly for those that maybe you know, I know we obviously have got a lot of eCommerce stores that are probably built on Shopify, Magento and then Amazon and eBay. But Etsy's probably less known, I would say. So how does it work exactly?

Mareike Turner
It's certainly less known in Europe than it is in the US. So here in the US, it's such a household name. They do TV ads. So as a buyer, it's really when you're looking for something unique and you want to buy great handmade gifts and you want to support small business owners and small shops, you go to Etsy. That is really your goal to address. And then what really is important about Etsy? It is about the shop and it is about the brand. And you go on Etsy because you want to buy something quality made handmade and you want to support the business behind that. So that is for. Yeah, that is why it's so important for Etsy sellers when they build their shop and they put their products out there to make sure that they tell their stories and tell who you are, tell why you came up with this idea. And that is why, yeah, buyers come to Etsy and why they why they decide to spend a little bit more. They could probably get a similar product cheaper on other marketplaces, but they they want to go to Etsy because of the experience. And then I'm a huge Etsy customer, like, I'm not going to lie I buy so much of Etsy and just getting these beautifully packaged items in the mail. Oftentimes they have a handwritten note where just like it warms your heart, especially in quarantine, you haven't had nice human interactions for days. And then you get an Etsy package in the mail and you're just like, oh, there is someone who really cares, even though I have never met this person, but just this whole culture that is so beautiful about this site.

Richard Hill
It's a whole experience buying from there, you know know you're buying from a, you know, it's homemade, handmade, sort of family made potentially, there's a story and it's, yeah. I have to, I bought a product not from Etsy recently. It was from another website. I won't name it, but, um, and as I ordered it about two hours later, the guy sent me like a really personalised message. It was like, thank you so much. It was. And it was coming from, I'm in the UK and it was coming from I think it was coming from Poland, I think. And the gentleman wrote a really nice note, 'thank you so much for the order, what we're going to do is make sure it's delivered....., we're going to package it this way'. And and it was like a really long, I was like, wow, this is amazing. And then when it arrives, you know, there was like a big smiley face on the box. It obviously handwritten and then I opened the box and the wrapping was just he must have spent 15 minutes wrapping this thing. I mean, it was it was reasonably valued like 200 pound thing. It was a clock I bought for my office and the way it was packaged. And then there was a little handwritten note in there sort of saying thank you once again for supporting... I was like oh, my gosh. You know then he sent me another email about three days later. 'Just checking you've got everything, everything's okay?' And the amount of extra care and it was like the whole experience of that of that clock purchase was just phenomenal.

Mareike Turner
I love that.

Richard Hill
Left such a like, wow, a real wow. Yeah. So if you're, you know, you're an eCom seller, you're on Shopify, Magento, doing Amazon, you know, when should they think about jumping onto Etsy or is it normally they're on Etsy first would you say or you know, is it...?

Mareike Turner
It really depends on the kind of product that you're selling. So Etsy has this this policy they only support, I think, yeah, they change that, they changed that a couple of years ago. But it's still this focus on handmade and small batches. So if if you want to sell your, your big, big batch items, like Etsy is not your marketplace. And really it comes with, with telling, telling your story, telling your brand. But what I have seen from experience is every online seller they have kind of their marketplace where they want to start out their idea and then as they grow, at one point you will need to expand. So it's probably not a bad idea if you have like the inventory and if you're really serious about your eCommerce business, try different marketplaces, try how your items do on Etsy, try how they do on Amazon, build your own store with Shopify and then really build out your your channel strategy and don't put all your eggs in one basket because that is also something that could happen. One of the platforms could shut your shop down for whatever reason and then you don't want to, like, just trust this one marketplace and just want to build your business on this one channel, but this multi-channel shop strategy is really what I've been seeing, that is really successful.

Richard Hill
So with your time at Etsy and obviously that experience as a buyer as well, by the sound of it, not just not just working with them and helping them, helping sellers, but what would you say are any sort of secret tips that you've come across to help sell more on the Etsy channel, on that platform? You said you work with, or account managers work with with literally hundreds of clients per account manager there. Any any specific little nuggets that the listeners could take away?

Mareike Turner
I think that goes for all eCommerce channels. But having quality pictures of your items is the most important thing, because that is the first thing that the buyer is seeing. Right. Your picture and then using your keywords and doing some analysis on keywords like what are buyers looking for? How can you optimise your keywords? And then also thinking about because what is nice about a marketplace like Etsy, it gives you exposure to all these buyers. But then still there's probably more items like yours out there. How do you stand out and how do you get your items to the front page? And with that, it's also something, think about investing in advertising and just playing around with it. And Etsy has this tool called promoted listings so you can promote your listings, get them on the front page for certain keywords and really do your research or even again get help reach out to the Etsy support. They have a lot of resources. It's just, it's a lot of trial and error, I would say. But starting with quality pictures, of course, quality items, quality customer support, and then telling your story, bringing your brand out there and then for marketing, even the free versions of build an Instagram page, build a Facebook page, promote your, your listings that way and tell stories around it. Just don't just repost the listings that you have, but get pictures from buyers, show your items in action and really tell this story. And yeah, show, give a feeling like that is what Etsy is all about when you see these great handmade products, beautiful jewellery or baby items or stuff like that, they're telling this whole story and that is what sells.

Richard Hill
Yeah, that's fantastic. I think that's that's a great point to end on. I think there's been a lot of great takeaways there now. I always like to finish every episode with a book recommendation. Do you have a specific book that you recommend to our listeners?

Mareike Turner
I have my favourite book that I'm happy to recommend. And I think it's these days it's more more relevant than ever. We've all been more or less quarantined for over a year. And I think we've all been at this place or at this point in our days, like every day looks the same. I don't have a commute anymore. I can't go to the gym. I can't meet my friends for a certain period of time. What do I do with my day? How do I structure my day? And one book that I love to reference in situations like this is The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg. And it really goes into how habits are created in your brain, how you can use them to structure your day, and how you can really trick yourself into doing things that you that you always wanted to do and always wanted to try out. And that is just a good reminder whenever I have these days, like is today Thursday or Tuesday? I have no idea, every day is the same. Think about that and really be mindful and intentional about how you spend your day and how you structure your day and carve out time for the things that really give you energy and yeah. Bring you through this crazy, weird period of time.

Richard Hill
That's a fantastic - thank you. Thank you. That's a real fantastic bit of advice as well as a as well as a book recommendation. That's fantastic. Yeah. Power of Habit, we'll link that up in the show notes. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. The guys that are listening in, if they want to find out more about yourself, what's the best way to do that? What's the best way to reach out to you?

Mareike Turner
Find me on LinkedIn. Mareike Turner. That is the nice thing about my name. There is only one. Find me. Hit me up.

Richard Hill
There is only one Mareike Turner. Yeah.

Mareike Turner
Exactly.

Richard Hill
Well, thank you so much for being on the show and we'll speak again soon. Thank you.

Mareike Turner
Thank you, Richard.