E41: Phoebe Skinner

Richard Hill
Hi and welcome to another episode of eCom@One and today's guest is Phoebe Skinner, who is actually the project coordinator here at eComOne and SEO Traffic Lab. How are you doing, Phoebe?

Phoebe Skinner
Yeah, I'm really good, thank you.

Richard Hill
Now, I've been sort of coaxing Phoebe onto the podcast for the last few months. And here we are. We've finally got Phoebe on. Now, Phoebe has been with us at the agency for a long, long time and is a real big part of our agency here at eComOne and SEO Traffic Lab. So I think it'd be good for you to kick off Phoebe and just give us a little bit of an insight into your background and how we got to, you know from your start in the industry to today almost.

Phoebe Skinner
Yeah, so I started with the agency six years ago and I started as an apprentice, I wasn't really that keen on college. So I decided to see what else was out there. And then I've worked on several projects since then and now I'm the project coordinator. So I worked with the SEO team on the day to day tasks and also helped with the management of all the different projects.

Richard Hill
Great, so I started as an apprentice, did that apprentice program. I think a lot of people listening, you know, starting in their careers, there's that choice isn't there, you've got university or college then university. You know, then you've got an apprentice. And I think more and more people now are doing apprenticeships. And I think it's been fantastic, fantastic to see your progression in the industry. I think Phoebe is very, what's the word? She looks after a lot of things within our industry, within our agency, so literally hundreds of different projects over the years that Phoebe's project managed with with the wider team. So she's fantastic. So, OK, I think obviously a lot of things you've done over the last six years you've almost been with the agency and in the industry from school. What would you say has been the biggest life changing sort of moment within that period?

Phoebe Skinner
I think for me, it's just been the opportunity to grow. So obviously starting as an apprentice and now being a project coordinator, I've had the opportunity to work on so many different projects. And I started from just basically doing the basics of writing meta and blogs and now I'm like a lot more into and I'm writing bigger blogs. And I'm also looking at the local SEO side, which is something that I really enjoy. And also I think that just the project management side like, it's something that I really enjoy doing. And I'm really glad that I got into that role in the most recent years. But also on a more personal level as well, obviously, with the growth that I've had, it's also allowed me to buy my own house, which obviously I wouldn't have been able to do if I had not had the growth of being at the company. Yeah, so, yeah, it's been very good. Yeah.

Richard Hill
I mean, literally from from stepping into the industry, you know, and one of the first tasks that a lot of people do in our agency, I think a lot of agencies is obviously to understand those fundamentals and some of those fundamentals, then it's almost like earning your stripes in an agency, in an SEO agency, particularly where we sort of, most of our people that come into our agencies, it's sort of like doing the wax on wax off of The Karate Kid, doing a lot of tasks, you know, and then earning the stripes and then going on to other tasks which, you know, take that as you will. But I think maybe writing 10,000 meta, you know, you know, that's years ago now, and now project managing, you know, very large projects for companies that have, you know, hundreds of locations. And I think you talked about quite a few things there and I think Local SEO is a huge area, I know it's a huge area for businesses as a whole specifically now, while we're all locked down more. I'm trying to support that local environment and the local traders and local businesses. But I think just to maybe go back a step, what is the difference between local SEO and national SEO for those that are listening? You've got a lot of e-commerce stores that that will sell nationally. But what's the difference between, sort of, local SEO and national SEO?

Phoebe Skinner
So I think the methods behind them both are quite similar. With local SEO you're trying to target a more, like smaller location and like more specific location, whereas with national SEO, obviously it's a lot more broad. So an example really is like a family run florist, for example, is going to be wanting to target a much smaller specific audience, whereas a multi millionaire business selling computer components are obviously going to be trying to go a lot more broader...

Richard Hill
On a national level. Yeah

Phoebe Skinner
Yeah, definitely. So I would say a lot of it is very similar. So it's still very important to make sure that you do keyword research so you can find those primary keywords and secondary keywords. But at the same time, obviously, it varies on which keywords you're going to go down. So, for example, with local SEO you're going to go for keywords that have got more of your location in so, for example, if you were a florist in Manchester, you'd be looking at keywords like 'florist in Manchester'. Whereas obviously more national ones are going to be a lot more broader and higher volumes.

Richard Hill
Yeah. So I think a lot of things to think about there. So the e-commerce stores listening to the to the eCom@One podcast, which we assume and we're pretty confident that 99 percent of them are, the clues in the name eCome@One, they'll be maybe asking 'Well I don't sell that much locally. You know, it's all national. Why do I need to be worried about local SEO?' You know, why should e-commerce businesses want to rank for local terms instead of going after these bigger terms? I think would be a good question.

Phoebe Skinner
I think if you've got a physical store, then you're still going to want to be ranking for those local terms because obviously you're trying to get people to come into your store.

Richard Hill
Yeah.

Phoebe Skinner
So with the national keywords, obviously, you're going to be more likely to engage people to have a look online, whereas if you've got that physical store, then you're going to like increase your visits physically by doing the local SEO side, so ranking for those local keywords.

Richard Hill
Okay, so as an e-commerce store, we've got those national, those big ahead terms that are, you know, the Holy Grail almost and where we where we want to get to. But let's not forget the fact that there is this element of local you know, specifically if you've got a store and the national, which I know some of you guys listening and will have both. You'll have a lot, I know a lot of our clients, a lot of our listeners have retail stores or the ability to pick up from a warehouse location, you know, which which some of you may not want as much of. But the reality is, I think what we're saying is that obviously more and more people are buying local, you know, if they can and try to support that local environment. And that's where you're getting that local enquiry. So when somebody types in that locality that, I think that example you gave was a florist in Manchester, if you're a florist in Manchester and you're listening to this, you may well sell a million pounds worth of flowers through your e-comm store, but you may well also do a hundred grand locally or whatever it may be, you know, and getting a piece of that pie at the same time. So, you know, it's something that, you know, you don't want to miss, you know. It all starts to add up. Now, when we say local SEO, we started talking about location and Manchester and you the different, you know, that locality. So wherever you are listening, you know, and or wherever you want to rank locally and you can service locally, you want to look at a strategy for that location is what we're saying. But where would somebody start? You know, I've got an e-comm store, you know, I've done a bit of local SEO, we've maybe got a Google My Business page or something like that. But where do I, where's the best place to start for the guys that are listening to the podcast right now?

Phoebe Skinner
I think with a local SEO strategy, there's a few things that you need to consider like right at the start, and so having a look at what your competitors are doing is obviously a very good way to start it, because that's where local SEO can help, because really you want to be outranking your competitors. So if you've got multiple, I'm going to go back to florists, if you've got multiple florists in a location, then obviously you've got a lot of competition. So making sure you're having a look at what your competitors are ranking for, seeing what local keywords they're ranking for is obviously very important. And also then once you've decided on those keywords, you then need to make sure that they're all over your website, within your content, on your meta. And then obviously that's going to give you more of an opportunity to rank. Also, a really important thing is making sure that your Google My Business page is fully optimized. So making sure that you've got the correct name, address, phone number and making sure your opening hours are on there, but also making sure you're taking advantage of the different services and features that are on Google My Business, so for example, you can add products on there, you can add the different services that you offer. And then the final one that I'd say is really important, it comes a lot further down the line. But making sure that you're doing local PR, so engaging and establishing relationships with like local newspapers, and then when you've got something big to announce, so maybe you've done recruitment or you've got a new product launch, then obviously you can send those to these newspapers and it's going to get you out there, which is really helping your brand awareness.

Richard Hill
Yeah, I think that's a lot, a lot of quite a few things that I think are fantastic. Thank you, Phoebe. I think that that local PR element, I think a lot of people probably misunderstand or misjudge how potentially not as difficult as they think it might be to reach out to these local news outlets. So wherever you are in the world, you know, in your town and city, there's going to be several, you know, depending on the size of your town, probably dozens and dozens of known news outlets, whether that's the local you know, the local newspaper, believe it or not, they're still out there or whether it's the local online, you know, the online equivalent. You know, every city has one pretty much. I know where we are there's a couple of options for that local and you know, building relationships as a business owner with them, because these these guys need news. You know, they need news and there's nothing better. That's a broad statement. But it's not far out, I think there's nothing better than having an on topic, up-to-date piece of news about your business being put in those news outlets and Google will see those, they'll know that those local news outlets are authoritative, localised news. So usually, you know, nine times out of ten, a higher authority or high authority piece, you know, and can be quite straightforward. You know, in our estimates, we've built relationships with our locality, but then different towns and cities where our clients are based. You know, we've got we've built out a bank of PR contacts, editors that we contact when we have a client that's based in Manchester, for example, we've got a collection of of different people in the industry, in different industries. So whether you're in retail, whether you're in, you know, the different areas, you know, different sectors, you know, and as we know, the people that listen to this podcast, we've got people that sell everything, you know? You know, it's amazing. I mean it really is. I've just had a call this morning with one of our clients who sells fish that's ridiculously, you know, doing ridiculously well. And then just about to have a call after this podcast with somebody that sells golf, golf course hole makers, you know, but wherever they are, they have a locality, you know, wherever they are, you know. So a couple of relationships locally can really help your local SEO. So we've touched on there a few things. Now, Google My Business. I think we should come back to that. So what's the importance of having a Google My Business page for for a business?

Phoebe Skinner
So it's really important to have a Google My Business page because when someone searches for your company, that's the first thing that's going to appear. So obviously, if your customer's only wanting to know your address or your opening hours, then they can see that via your Google My Business page without even having to go onto your website. So it's very important to make sure that it's fully optimized. And also you need to make sure that the information is correct, because obviously, if someone sees on your Google My Business that you're open until 5 o'clock but really you're actually open till three, then they're going to be very disappointed if they turn up to your store. Especially with what's going on at the minute, it's really important to make sure the opening hours are correct, because obviously I know a lot of shops and a lot of places have had to do restrictions on their hours. So that is very important. And then also over the last couple of years, obviously, voice search has become very, very big. So what Google does is if you were to search for 'florists near me', for example, it would utilize from your Google My Business page. So that's where it's getting the information from. So if your listing is incorrect, then the voice search result is also going to be incorrect. So it's just not helping that customer relationship if it's not got the right information.

Richard Hill
Yeah, I mean, voice search, could do a whole podcast on that. But I think the reality is I listen to, I've got two teenage sons, as you know. And, you know, literally, they just sit there like that all day, every day, 'Oh Google, search .... Google ....'. It's a whole new world sort of thing. I don't do that. And I should do that really because it's quicker. But I just, I'm used to typing it in and that's where I am with it. But I know that generation, a few generations before mine, well, a few years before mine, that's quite natural, the benefit of voice search and making sure that Google My Business is set up properly. So what are some of the things, specifically then with a Google My Business page that an e-commerce store can optimize?

Phoebe Skinner
So obviously we've already touched on how important the opening hours are. But also on Google My Business, you have the opportunity to add seasonal hours. So if, for example, over Christmas or Easter you've got reduced hours or you're completely closed, then underneath the opening hours section, there's a section to put in seasonal hours. So obviously, this is really handy if you've got different hours over the periods. But also a massive thing is making sure that you're taking advantage of the extra features. So, for example, you can add products on there. So if you've got like a set of products that sell very well, for example, then you can add pictures and descriptions of them on your Google My Business page, and then it's allowing potential customers to see them before they even get to your website. So they're knowing what to expect once they get onto your site. And then something that Google have recently added is if you've got a café within your store, then you can now add menus to your Google My Business page so you can add it as a PDF or you can add as an image. And then obviously that's just helping the customers before they've even arrived. So I think the most important thing to do is making sure that you when you set up your Google My Business, you make sure every single thing is complete. When you go to the main home screen, it's actually got a percentage score. So if you're missing anything, then it will tell you what you're missing. And that's what the key areas that you need to make sure you've got on there.

Richard Hill
Yeah, yeah.

Phoebe Skinner
Another thing that we've seen with clients and sometimes when we manage their Google My Business page, they don't have many images. So it's really important to have images on there because obviously people could use them for directions or they could just use them to be nosy really and see what it is that you sell. It is very important to have, like the logo and then also the additional images that you can add.

Richard Hill
Yeah, I agree. It's quite straightforward there. So I think you guys that are listening, erm I think a simple thing for you to go and do is maybe pause now. Well wait a minute and go to Google and type in your brand name. So whatever your business is called, type that in and your Google My Business page will appear on the right hand side typically ninety nine times out of 100 right hand side. You'll see what your business looks like. Now that image that you're staring at right now, does that reflect your brand as you want it? Is it a logo you created six years ago? Is it the old shopfront or is it, obviously a lot of you won't have shops, we understand that, but is it the old logo? Is it the old warehouse? Is it the old team? You know, teams change, the team picture. You know, our team is growing. You know, for example, look at our team page and it's always, not always, but you know I looked at it the other day and it's like, oh, OK, we've got four more people since since we added that photo. So we need to we need to get some new ones done. But it's a bit tricky at the moment. So we'll have to see, the magic of Photoshop, maybe soon, but probably not. But when we're allowed to go back in the office properly, we'll have to have a new one. But that could be a while. But yes, have a look at how you look now. But then you've got those interior shots, you've got those exterior shots, you've got the product shots, you've got the people shots and other, so just making sure they're fully optimised and fully complete, there's ways that you name those images as well. So quite a few things there. But what would you say if I was to push you on a couple of hidden gems, a couple of real sort of things that you know, from things that I think that you've gone through, that the guys listening will to go through and put some time into? But what are some things where you can really going to sort of turn the dial on that local SEO?

Phoebe Skinner
I think the most important thing to do, and my biggest piece of advice, is just keeping up to date as well. So making sure that you're always looking out for new updates and new features that have been added and going back to Google My Business in particular, they're always adding new stuff. So, for example, due to the pandemic, they've released a feature now where you can add a service that will say it's mandatory to wear a mask within your store, or it'll say that you've got, that you're going to clean down the sides, for example. So it's making customers feel like they can still come to you and that they are going to be protected. And another thing that they've added because of the pandemic is if you are now offering a delivery service or a pickup service and you've got particular hours for that, then you can now add these on as well. So if you're not able to open but people can come and pick stuff up from you, then you can add specific hours. So they're aware of the sort of times that they can go. So, yeah, I'd say my biggest piece of advice is just making sure you're always keeping up to date, having a look at the news stories, making sure you keep up to date with Google, and then you're going to find out everything and make sure you're implementing it straight away. So as soon as new stuff comes out on Google My Business, straight away we're sat and we're trying to work out where that's going to work for our clients so we can make sure that they've got all of the up-to-date services as well.

Richard Hill
So keeping things up-to-date, which I think is the key to a lot of a lot of digital marketing, isn't it? People say 'Oh I can do SEO, we can do this', but things are changing. Things are changing if you're not keeping up to date, yeah you'll be doing OK, but you can be doing a lot better than that by keeping things up to date. And, you know, just keep an eye on the changes. I know we blog quite a lot on both of our sites around local SEO. So, you know, I recommend having a look there as well, guys. So obviously seeing a lot of changes over the last year with specifically about the Covid changes and the changes to Google My Business around Covid and the things that you can do, working on a lot of interesting projects, as I know. But obviously, you've worked on a lot. I mean, we're talking I know hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, five hundred different local business projects. What would you say has been the most interesting project, you know, and what are some of the elements of that project that some of the listeners might get some benefit from?

Phoebe Skinner
So I'd say the most interesting project that I've worked on and that we're still currently working on is a client who's got two hundred and twenty locations. So they're all in different sectors. And basically, they came to us about two years ago and asked us if we would be able to manage and optimize all of their Google My Business listings. So two hundred and twenty different listings. So obviously at the start, it was quite a daunting process having that many to optimize but I think it was so interesting to see how many things were missing from the listings. So it gave us a massive opportunity to add so many new things to them. And then from that, we've also started optimizing their website, so their different locations on their website. So we've done the keyword research, which has been very much local SEO keyword research, and also looking at their content and seeing how we can optimize that. And I think the main thing that I took away from that project was that the management side. So we set up a Trello board, which is a project management software, and we basically listed out all of the tasks that we would be doing with the relevant deadlines. And then from that, we've like, we've known exactly what we need to do when it's got to be done by. And then we've been able to have really tight communication with the client and managed to build such a good relationship. And so, yeah, and now I'd say it's definitely my favourite project to work on.

Richard Hill
So two hundred and twenty plus locations, seven different sectors. And obviously a tight relationship with the client, obviously learnt an awful lot from that project and how long have you been working with them now?

Phoebe Skinner
I think it's been nearly around two years. So and obviously it's always been new tasks each time as well. Like each time we have meetings, there's always new things that we can take away. And obviously when the pandemic started, there was a lot of work that we needed to do. So a lot of the stores were like restricting hours, or some of them had to close so we've had to do a lot of work on that business to make sure that it's like exactly the same as on the website.

Richard Hill
I know from from the inside track, I know for the guys that are listening in I mean, the sheer volume of activity there, if you imagine owning 220 stores. And then Boris says to you, right, you've now got to do X, Y, Z, or the reality is you're having challenges with your staffing and stocking of your stores. So it's no longer necessary for you to be or you can't be open till 1o o'clock. You've now got to go in and change 220 stores or even if it's, even if it's 50 or two or twenty, you know, you guys listening in, we've got a lot of clients with multiple stores, you know, whether it's 2, 10, 20, 50, you've got to go in and adjust, you know, all those opening hours, all those covid restrictions and covid services, you know it's a big task. But when Google is deciding who to rank and who is the expert out there, because ultimately that's what it's about, is how you're going to outrank your competitors. You know, when we're looking at and drive traffic from real searches, if you're the company that's active and consistent in your Google My Business, it's a big, it's a big tick. It's not the only tick, of course, in the SEO Matrix, but on a local level it's a huge one, that Google My Business, that local. So there's a lot of things there Phoebe, we've got the Google My Business, big focus there, I would suggest that, you know, I would say to the guys that are listening, I think it would be an area that a lot of people with e-commerce stores will have overlooked and will sort of maybe not have done a lot of this stuff. But there's a lot of things there that I think you should implement if you're listening. You know, Google My Business is going to Google, forward slash business and there's your Google My Business page. If you can't log in as a business owner again, you need to sort that out the first, the first thing we find and when we take on clients, right, can we can we organise the access? Or how do we do that? OK, maybe they don't know the access bit and the user access, but to actually access their account quite often, it's something that they might not have claimed in the first place or something that an old employee that might not be with the company anymore created or claimed and then managed and now they can't get access to it. So it's going through that process claiming it if you haven't, which most of you I think will have done, but then go through and have a look, go have a look at your own, look and feel. You know, I think personally, you know, I take from my point of view, you know, we've had our agency for eleven years and my previous business, for ten years, the two businesses really or two parts of my life really that have had businesses. And it's important to me, very important to me what, when somebody looks at our brands because we've got two brands now eComOne and SEO Traffic Lab. What we look like online, you know, and our reputation is important to me in the way we look, the way we feel from an outside looking in. You go to Google, type in your brand, it's got the old logo, that's not good enough. It's just not good enough. You know, if you've got pictures from 1988 or whatever, when you, you know, saying that there's an argument for that story of, you know, from where you were to show in that process and progress within your business. But does it represent you as it should, what your reviews look like on your Google My Business. And that's another area of Google My Business. So I think some good, good takeaways there to implement. So obviously, managing so many projects, what advice would you give to the guys? And I think as an e-commerce store owner, they're managing so many things, whether it is that bit of the Google My Business and, you know, so many things that, you know, I know from obviously working with you that project managing is quite a task in itself. We'll see how many of our team listen to this episode, because I know within our team we've got some extremely organized people, shall I say, some not so organized people in the team and they're working on that. And that's great. You know, they're working on it and they keep working towards it. But, you know, being organized and organizing what might be for instance several hundred actions a month, if not, you know, three, four or five hundred things a month, you know, in juggling all that, what would you say are some things that could help the listeners to help project manage projects and project manage that business? What what sort of insight would you give us there?

Phoebe Skinner
I would highly recommend that you get a project management software. So last year we made the move from Trello to Asana and I absolutely love Asana. It's so good for like keeping everything in one place. Basically for each of our clients we have a project and then in that project you've got it all broken down into different months with each task and it just looks so clean and like it's so easy to navigate. And also one of the features that I really like is you can set it to where it needs to be completed, whether it's being worked on or whether it's been done. So obviously, when you're, as a project coordinator, when I go in and have a look, I can obviously compare that to the deadline and then I know whether I need to chase anybody on it. So I'd say I'd say it's definitely a good idea to make sure you've got a project...

Richard Hill
Who are you chasing the most? No I'm joking we won't go there.

Phoebe Skinner
But also with Asana, you can like connect it with different apps. So we use Slack for our communication as a company so we can connect Asana with Slack. So, for example, if you complete a task on Asana, it will then show in a Slack chat for that specific client. So obviously then it's just allowing the whole team to be up to date and the whole team knows exactly what's going on. And so it's a very good way of making sure everything's in one place and the communications still going within the company.

Richard Hill
Yeah, I think that will resonate with a lot of listeners. You know, people are trying to scale their business, you know, and if we forget e-commerce products for a minute, it doesn't matter what you sell, what you're trying to do in your business, you've got to get organized and frameworks, processes, systems, you know, these are words that are thrown around every day, but having something that's almost like the hub of the project management, you know. And we've tested a lot of different things and a lot of different people in the business have come through the business and we've changed a few things around. And you know the different project management systems, we try, but we're set on Asana and Slack, which work well together. You know, I think there's two things there that I'd recommend to check out. Obviously, it does depend on your own business. But, you know, when you're just, when you think about the different projects you will have on as an e-commerce store owner from, you know, your HR piece, your you know, your importing piece, your marketing piece, your sales piece, your whether it's, you know, your Google shopping, AdWords, Facebook piece, you know, all the different elements where you're going to manage those projects and who's going to be assigned them. And then you're really keeping people accountable, deadlines, deadlines move and things change and just regrouping on that quite regularly. You know, I know as a team, you know, we've got different sorts of teams in our business and, you know, Phoebe has two sort of teams, if you like, on the SEO side, you know, they have near enough bigger monthly meetings, but then weekly meetings, but everything really, especially when we're working from home, you know, we're getting ping from the different tools like oh that deadline's due, that deadline's due. Not too much, but enough. So just having those systems there's obviously free trials for those. You know, Slack's quite an interesting one because it's been bought out by...the name escapes me now, big CRM...Sales Force, about a month ago, I think. So it'll be interesting, they've just started doing TV and TV ads for Slack in the U.K. here last week. So now they've got this big investment. You know, I think it's a billion dollars, so it's more than that. Several billion it was sold for. So it's going to be interesting journey, I think, with Slack, the things that they'll implement and integrations they'll implement. I'm pretty sure that they will integrate with all the systems that you guys may be using. And that's the beauty of it as well. We implement it, sorry we integrate it with a few other systems as well. So, for example, here's one for you guys. So, you know, I think a lot of the guys that listen to the podcast, what we do in AdWords or Shopping, if you're not, you know what you need to do. You need to have a look below and book a meeting with one of the team. But when you're running Google shopping ads, for example, you may well have issues with your feed. You know, you'll get a notification in your Merchant Centre to say, oh, a 20 percent decrease in your product data in your SKUs, or there's an issue with this, an issue with VAT, there's an issue with delivery, you know, and it might be going into an inbox with a lot of other email and that will then get missed. And the next thing you know, your feed's down and you can't then run ads. Your ads are down. 'Oh my ads are down...Oh well I had notification three weeks ago...'. Well what you can do, you know, quite straightforward is create a channel in Slack, which is what we do, create a channel in Slack. And when we get any notifications from any of our client accounts, it gets pushed into that Slack channel. And then the team here at eComOne, that are responsible for feeds, they are in that channel, as are the head of department, as am I, because that's a high priority and then it doesn't get missed, you know, and then it's like, right, that's a high priority channel. Somebody's got a notification to say that ads are at threat or there's going to be a problem. So you can use it for other sort of, you know, and then when you start going deeper, I've taken over on ads now, but you think about any big shifts in your AdWords accounts, you can set triggers to push into Slack and that type of thing. Right. So Asana and two big takeaways there as well. So I always like to finish every episode on a book recommendation now or a training recommendation.

Phoebe Skinner
So I would highly recommend the Local SEO course, which is on SEMrush and it's with Greg Gifford and so it's got 10 lessons and it's completely free. Obviously, it's giving you all those insights that you need to know for local SEO. And also on LinkedIn in Greg Gifford also posts videos every week with new updates and stuff as well. So that's definitely worth checking out.

Richard Hill
Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. For the guys that are listening that maybe want to contact you directly, that want to contact you and find out more about what you're doing in the local SEO space, what's the best way to do that?

Phoebe Skinner
Just drop me an email. So my email's phoebe@ecomone.com or you can also find me on LinkedIn.

Richard Hill
Fantastic, I know you're very active on LinkedIn. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast Phoebe.

Phoebe Skinner
Thank you.

Richard Hill
And I'll speak to you later. Speak to you later.

Phoebe Skinner
Speak to you later.

Richard Hill
Bye.