E40: Joe Glover

E40 Joe Glover Transcript

Richard Hill:
Welcome to another episode of eCom@One and today’s guest is Joe Glover, the founder of The Marketing Meetup, a community of over 20,000+ digital marketers and marketeers. How are you doing Joe?

Joe Glover:
I’m doing good, thank you very much for having me here today.

Richard Hill:
Thank you for coming on, thank you for agreeing to come on. Now we’ve had quite a lot of meetings internally about who we’re going to get on the podcast, and the guest, the team, that they would like to get on the podcast, and your name has come up a few times.You have a bit of a fanbase within our agency team, so it was like right, let’s get Joe on and find out all about The Marketing Meetup, about communities, and obviously i know you’ve got a lot of stuff going on there in the community from talking to our team. So I’m really keen to find out about The Marketing Meetup and find out how that came about and sort of the motivation behind it.

Joe Glover:
It’s really super lovely that people have put my name forward, it’s a constant surprise to me even at this stage that folks think of me in that way and it’s really kind that they would. In terms of like finding out about The Marketing Meetup in terms of your question then, The Marketing Meetup is, as you said in your introduction, a community of marketers across the world, primarily in the UK but we’ve also got people in America, Australia, Macedonia, Greece, Egypt, wherever it is, you know we’ve sort of united marketers from across the world even though that sounds quite grand. The line that we sort of speak about is that we seek to educate and connect marketers but I think the most important thing about The Marketing Meetup is that it’s done with kindness, and actually with me, I’ve got to be careful here not to sort of over-gradise, sort of make it bigger than what it is but for me The Marketing Meetup is about marketing but it’s more about human connection. And I think we’ve all had that experience at some point in our life where we’ve walking into a networking room or had an interaction with someone at some point where they’ve denigrated you to a figure, or a sale or whatever it may be and you come out of that interaction feeling slimy or dirty and it’s just not nice. So five years ago I started a group as a hobby with the intention of just bringing together some lovely people to look after each other a little bit and speak about marketing. And I’m really lucky that over the course of time, it’s kind of grown into what it has and I think perhaps what I’m proudest of is, even though the numbers keep getting bigger and bigger, the values have always stayed so aligned. So I feel very very lucky and it's been an amazing journey so far.

Richard Hill:

Wow, wow. That’s fantastic. So, you’re creating and giving so much content on a daily, weekly monthly, well yearly, well obviously 5 years in, obviously just before we hit record on the podcast, having a regroup on some of the things you’ve been doing you know I think you’re on episode 139 of the podcast, you know, webinars, experts on all different areas. What would you say are some of the stand-out pieces of content around the webinars and on the content that really stand out to you over the last year or so and why?

Joe Glover:
It depends on the metric that you’re applying at the time, you know so stuff like, the Mark Ritson session that we did was amazing because you know we did a really large event so for that event we had like 1600 people sign up and there was well over 900 people live of the session, nevermind just watch it. I mean stuff like the Rory Sutherland can be judged by the same sort of metric of sort of a large event with a big name as well. You know these folks are people that are shaping the marketing industry and they were sat there on our webinar which was mad, I was pinching myself for those sessions. But then I think the important thing is that, and perhaps this is something we all get swept away with a little bit is that sometimes the big names, you know in Mark and Rory’s case they absolutely delivered, but just because people have a littler name, doesn’t mean they have anything less valuable to say or more valuable to say. SO for example, people like Mary Owusu, who leads a company called Gurubound, and John Espirian who’s a freelancer and he’s a technical copywriter. You know people like those, Mary spoke about SEO and John spoke about LinkedIn and how to do it right and both were like, probably the the best ever talks we’ve had in terms of the reception to them, because I would personally never pick on and say it was my favourite but you know, in terms of the reception, then those were the ones. And the reason why was that they were super practical and people came in with Mary and she was like, ‘these are the steps that you need to do right now’ and I know after that talk, I spent about two day implementing exactly what she said, and same for John so, I think there’s lots of different ways you can judge your favourites or the best, or whatever it may be, but with these talks, you know the real practical stuff is the stuff that people wanted.

Richard Hill:
Yeah that really resonates with me to be fair. After going to an industry event after event after event and listening to different talks and whatnot and to be able to go away or really resonate with the speaker and see a really genuine passion and clearly understand their topic and their passion for their topic is just quite infectious. But then having clear takeaways and thinking ‘Oh yeah we could do that’ and you know breaking it down rather than leaving too much of a mystery of that topic and you go well, ‘I get we need to do SEO but I still don’t really understand what we’ve got to do’ or, you know which can usually quite often be the case sort of thing.

Joe Glover:
Yeah I couldn’t agree more, I think each have their place as well, there’s a time for inspirational, there’s a time for practical, you know and it depends what you need in that moment. There’s another talk which, Sherilyn Shackell who’s the head of The Marketing Academy gave with us at the end of last year and it wasn’t a, ‘This is how you do SEO’, it was a purely inspirational talk but likewise the reception was ridiculous, so it depends what people need in that moment.

Richard Hill:
I think having that mix, I think even more so at the moment where you know everyone’s potentially working from home more, you can definitely get information overload, you know definitely webinar overload, you know having that, breaking it up with more things on the mindset, more sort of dealing with dealing with elements of lockdown life, or whatever it may be rather than just, ‘Right SEO this SEO this’ or whatever it may be, yeah.

Joe Glover:
Yeah absolutely. I think we have to come back down to the reason why we’re doing these things so for me at least The Marketing Meetup is a vehicle to helping people live a better life in a way,and again that sounds really grand but I think broadly speaking it’s my job to help folks be better in a professional context and if they’re better in a professional context then they’re likely to be happier you know, at work. And if they’re happier at work then they’re happier at home too. So you know, there is an absolute influence that these things can have, inspirational, practical, whatever it may be. Just try to make people a little but happier.

Richard Hill:
Yeah, which I think is the key for all of us really. We all want to be that little bit happier in what we’re doing and the everything else sort of slots in I think, you know, definitely. So when we say 20,000 people+ in a community, obviously that’s a huge feat, fantastic, so what would you say are the benefits of that for the ecommerce stores listening in and are thinking, you know, we’re going to get into the community aspect as we go through the podcast episode the benefits that you think and you've seen that would maybe correlate to ecommerce stores that are listening to the podcast, the benefits that they might get?

Joe Glover
Yeah, I think there needs to be a caveat given up front, because a big proponent of an argument that is, community does not equal your customers. You know, it's not the same thing. So I think people are very quick to rush to saying 'we've got this community'. And actually it's just people that are buying from from you, you know, and I'm a big defender of the word community for that reason, because I think it sort of takes the true essence of what a community is, which is a place where people can come together to conversate, to meet, to learn and do it beyond just like a figurehead at the top who's telling them what to do. You know, they kind of become this sort of this nest, this this sort of mesh of of people and connection that is happening independent of this sort of higher level figure. So when we speak about the answer to this question and we're saying about ecommerce and how can they benefit from community, the first thing that you've got to say is you've got to make sure it's a real community, you know, and you can only have that if people are speaking beyond just like just like with with with the e-commerce brand. If you've got a genuine community, like one that really matters. Then you are starting to create something where your brand is not only a brand which people interact with on a very surface level, something that they might even wear or whatever it may be, you're getting that something that's part of their being. You're getting something they're proud to be part of. It's a movement. I mean, you know, this is the rubbish example that every marketer gives ever. But, you know, they are relevant one is that Patagonia feels more like a cultural movement than it does just the brand, you know, and you could say the same for Nike in the past. The benefit of all that is that people start speaking. And so the greatest marketing channel in the entire world is word of mouth. And if people start speaking about you and start identifying, then it just goes down to psychology. You know, you start creating a group of people who resonate with your brand, resonate with it to the point where your logo is their badge of honor, you know, their badge, and they will speak about it. And that is that's infectious. Peloton are doing it right now. People become their greatest advocates. And again, you know, folks start speaking inevitably leads to sales further on down the line. So the benefit of community, probably the biggest one is, well, the first is engagement and then the second is advocacy.

Richard Hill
OK, OK. I think it's, I think it's newer territory more, for a lot more e-commerce brands I think, you know you know, it's obviously something that we've interviewed quite a few of our guests, e-commerce, actual owners on the on the podcast and the ones that have got that community aspect. Right. I mean, I don't know exactly what 'right' is I can't really define it exactly. But, you know, you can see when you look at their social media, you know, it's driven very much by the community rather than the owner, or the head, if you like, or, you know, the main person. The ones that I see that are doing really well are the ones you say, the advocates, the people in the community that are really like, what's the world, they're sort of flying the flag for the community. And it's like a badge of honor, like you say, in that, you know, that there are almost when you look on social media, they're answering for the community or they're engaging with the community and almost like the brand, almost stand back, but they're not standing back. They're obviously guiding and moving things in the background.

Joe Glover
Yep spot on but, you know, I think that that kind of advocacy that you see on social media, as you say, is it was a great example and a good signal that you're starting to build something that people care about.

Richard Hill
So, yes. So I mean, I think it is quite interesting going back to sort of your community and my my team, you know, we all you know, we give them quite a quite a bit of time each week, month to to just, you know, spend time to learn. And, you know, we point them into certain trainings and courses and things like that. And we've got access to a lot of different people and training courses. But they very much, you get, you do, your community does get mentioned quite a lot, which is which is quite, quite well, it's amazing. Really, really good. But what would you say would be one of the key things you've done if you could sort of say one thing, maybe two or maybe give you one or two that you've done and you could pinpoint to the success of your community?

Joe Glover
I'll give you two, because I guess then they work on the either end. So I guess the first is I don't want to say the word selfless, but this is the closest word to what I mean, you know, we look to give first, we look to benefit the human beings who are part of this community, improve their lives and do so with a genuine sense that that's the purpose of the organisation. You know, I think a lot of people will say the words that they're there to benefit their customers. But then if they had to make a decision between money and their customers, then they're going to choose the money one, you know, and I think I feel quite proud that the organisation that I build, I think for the most part, you know, beyond purposes of of practicality, I would always use the the human element. So I think, you know, a sense of genuine concern, genuinely wanting to benefit human beings. That's that's been a point of pride, but also a point of success. I think the the second point is very simply asking and I think this is probably a point which can be replicated for anyone. I think as British people we are terrible at asking people for help or asking people, you know, it's like, oh, you know, if it's if it's not too much trouble, you know, would you mind possibly kind of doing this thing, which I wouldn't mind you doing? You know, by the time you get to the ask, then people have fallen asleep. You know, it's like the thing, the one channel that is growing The Marketing Meetup more than any other has been word of mouth. And there is a marked difference in the communications which I put out in the response from folks when there's a line which says, would you mind sharing this? Versus a communication where there isn't such a call to action.

Richard Hill
You see a big increase.

Joe Glover
Absolutely. So, you know, I think, you know, I needed to get over myself to a certain extent, you know, sort of immediately sort of get away from that. But like when you're providing something which is providing genuine value in people's lives, I kind of want to share it because that's a good thing. So just asking has been a real sort of benefit and something that's made a big difference.

Richard Hill
I think that's two great takeaways that I think I think I've I've read a few times and I'm a very similar, very similar beliefs in our business that genuinely trying to help as many people as we can, you know, and whether things come from that or not, you know, genuinely, you know, if you if you can help somebody with their career in your case or with them a marketing strategy, you know, you're going to leave a really nice experience there. And then if ever, they then want to, are interested in the thing that you sell, if that's you know, then they may well buy it. But they're going to have a good experience. And, you know, and you're going to be on the you're going to be on the list, that's for sure about you do it to help, you know, giving us and that's, you know, I think the e-commerce stores listening in and how that might resonate with them. It's like, what can you give in your e-commerce business to help, you know, a potential customer or just anybody that is thinking of buying something in your product range or whatever? You know, what sort of content can you create that will help them understand the product more, purely, just to help them understand the product? You know, and then the byproduct of that maybe, it might not be. And it doesn't matter. Give enough. You know, that's know, I think that really resonates with me. And then simply just asking. I think it's quite surprising, yeah, just some of the guests we've had on the podcast and some of the people we've got lined up, you know, just reaching out to people and saying, you know, would you mind X or could you do this? And it's surprising that it's surprising what the answer may be. I think that's maybe a little challenge for the guys that are listening right now to maybe hit pause and think about that thing you're going to go and ask for in your next email comm, in your next e-mail sequence. Or the next time, you know, you may be putting off maybe asking something of somebody or, you know, and you're a bit scared to do it or maybe reserved to do it, you know, go out there and ask what's the worst that's going to happen? Probably not a lot, really, actually.

Joe Glover
Absolutely. Spot on. I want to just add to your first point there as well about the the, you know, sort of the long term perspective and sort of looking to give first because, you know, I spent a little bit of time in the e-commerce agency, so I'm kind of familiar with the world and of course, the Navona that we all speak about is lifetime value. You know, and if we're going to put this conversation in purely commercial terms, you know, I have a firm belief and I'm sure that the data backs it up to that in a in a commercial sense, that giving attitude in terms of lifetime value is huge, you know. So I think. Yeah, you know, there's a numbers game to be played there as well.

Richard Hill
I, I live and breathe by it myself. I think, you know, something just out sparked my mind that is like I think seven years ago I did a talk at Spring Fair, which is the big sort of gift fair, and various other industries, but it was huge. As they say, I think their numbers were like seventy thousand people. I did a talk there on, I think it was on SEO at the time or I actually can't remember exactly, it might have been Google shopping, I think actually. And I got there, we spent a lot of time preparing it, you know, we drove over to NEC and I went and there was seven people there and it was like, oh, man, you know, you know, not like a webinar. I prefer the webinars, definitely, but, you know, but I just gave it my all, everything, you know, just value, value, value, value. Of course, we mentioned the brand and who we are and what we do. But, you know, literally like 40 minutes of presenting, cracking webinar, last week, well, the week before Christmas, this is like seven and a half years later, we got somebody filled in a form on our website. I spoke to them. They said I said 'Oh how did you hear about us?'. He said 'oh, I saw you do a talk seven and a half years ago'.

Joe Glover
Oh, yeah, amazing. Yeah.

Richard Hill
So he'd remembered all that time sort of thing, you know, and throughout that time he had watched various of the webinars and things like that. But if he didn't put his hand up, it doesn't matter, you know. So yeah.

Joe Glover
Well you know, I think if you think about if you're in an agency world, you know, when you're looking to bring on board clients, then I would say probably, you know, sort of eight out of the ten clients that you think about that are on your books right now, most of them would have felt like friends by the time they've already come in, you know, and that sort of speaks that long term relationship building, you know, and I know it's turf that lots of folks have trod on over the course of time. And it's nothing new for a podcast, but it just it bears repeating, you know, that I think particularly in the 2020/2021 world, more marketers are going to be asked to make more decisions purely based on the data, simply because budgets are being cut. People are going to become more reserved. So I think it bears repeating and keeping in mind that, you know, these sort of more ethereal sort of more, you know, where the attribution is a straight line. Personally I find can really pay off. And I personally, that's where I find a lot of fun as well, to be honest.

Richard Hill
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that's great. Great. Some great takeaways you touched on and we sort of very quickly touched on email. So obviously I know you have this twenty thousand strong community and I believe email plays quite a big part in that, you know, and you were saying about asking for things, you know, and asking for them to to to share, etc. What would be a couple of tips you'd give to the to the listeners? You know email and e-commerce very, you know, work very well together. What are some of the tips you would give for that?

Joe Glover
So I can only share an experience. So if I share very well the one piece of advice that I've always taken to heart was my dad told me never to give advice, so I can share an experience. And so the things that worked for me over the course of time is sweating the small stuff. And specifically it comes down to email copy more than anything. Yeah. So I don't spend a lot of time with flashy images, with anything like that. The majority of emails that go out for The Marketing Meetup to our database are plain text, maybe with a Gif logo in them at the top or at the bottom of my signature. But they essentially look like, you know, like an email.

Richard Hill
Like an email rather than a newsletter, designed template.

Joe Glover
100 percent. And then if you think within the boundaries of the plain text email you like, well, there's not a lot of opportunity to sort of innovate and do things differently within that. But, you know, it's amazing from everything from the salutation that I use when I say hi, it's not 'Hi First Name', it's 'Hi First Name, You Resplendent Quetzal', you know, which is a type of bird, you know, and it's just whatever's in your mind in that moment, people are getting called like, 'Hi, Hi, Richard, you moment when you catch up to the person who went 100 miles per hour past you and then you caught up to them at the traffic lights', you know, and it's like whatever is you know, that's that's the salutation. That's not just a 'Hey Joe'. That's the magic, moment of magic, which like gets people into something like this is a little bit different. After that, you know, the copy, instead of saying, you know, like we've got a webinar next week, it's like, well, let's put some humanity into it. So I'm sat in my chair right now typing this email to you immediately becomes more human. Yeah. You know, rather than saying, we've got a webinar, sell them on the benefits, you know, I really struggle with SEO and for that reason I've lined up Mary this week who is amazing at SEO. And then after that point, even stuff like the sign off. So I always sign off with 'Love, Joe', you know, and love is like, you know, as a marketer, as a human. It's something that's really important to me. It's something I mean, genuinely. But again, it's also something different. And even the signature image as an example, then I always have a gif in my signature rather than, I can see you do in yours, but like, you know, elevates it beyond just the flat image as well.

Richard Hill
Yeah, it stands out a little bit more.

Joe Glover
That's it. So you know what? In a plain text email, we've identified four or five opportunities to sort of sprinkle some magic in there.

Richard Hill
That was very nice that, I think just having that, taking a step back, I think, and sort of just being a bit more you as an individual rather than that corporate beast.

Joe Glover
Oh, isn't life too boring to be corporate, you know, too short to be corporate, you know, it's I, I don't know. I mean, I don't know about you. I mean how would how would you define corporate what would be your definition of a corporate life lived?

Richard Hill
I think very strict, you know, very tight. Not allowed to they're not allowed to really express yourself for fear of reprisal or, you know, problems from your peers. I think, you know, you want an environment where you work on who you you surround yourself with, where you can be yourself. So doing some of the things you say, you're very much being yourself, aren't you?

Joe Glover
Yeah, well, and I think that's a lovely definition because it reminds me of a story. And that story was one day I was on LinkedIn and I was just browsing and I wasn't tagged into this post or anything like that, but I stumbled upon a post that people were speaking about The Marketing Meetup, and the chap who posted was speaking about it favorably. But then there was a comment in the comments section from someone who said, 'oh, I subscribe to their emails, but their tone made my toes curl.'

Richard Hill
So this was your email?

Joe Glover
Yeah. So, yeah. So the emails that I sent made their toes curl and I took that as the greatest compliment that I've ever had because it meant that we were doing something that was either worthy of being loved or hated, you know, and I think there's a space that exists in the middle of marketing, which is a grey space, which so many of us live that corporate space. And really, if you're aiming for love or hate, you're probably onto a winner because people would care about it one way or another.

Richard Hill
Yeah, that's very well put. I think somebody said a similar thing to me about 10 years ago when I really had a sort of personal challenge with speaking in front of crowds and things. And generally speaking, it was a big fear of mine. And somebody said to me, well, the reality is, you know, you're going to go to a room and there's 100 people there, and ten people think you're a complete idiot. Don't worry about it. You know, another 20 people will not even be listening. And then another 10 people and so on and so on. The reality is there will be an element in there that are your people or that resonate with the way you are and be yourself. And that really resonated with me. It's just like, well, just do you know, do come from, come from the right place, you know, in terms of, you know, what you're trying to do and the way that you deliver and try and help. The reality is some people won't like you, won't like the way you do things, but hey, it's OK.

Joe Glover
Absolutely spot on. No I love that, you know you're dead right.

Richard Hill
OK, so I'm going to need to have a good look at your emails, I think, over the next few months, because that's very, very much, it's very much very high on our To-Do list right now. We've just come, I've just come out of a meeting about half an hour ago regarding our biweekly emails that are going out. So that was quite a personal question, actually.

Joe Glover
Hopefully it helps. Yeah. Yeah.

Richard Hill
So in the community, I am, I know you've got a lot of obviously marketeers. I mean, you will have a lot and you have got a lot of e-commerce specific marketeers, in the podcast, eCom@One very e-comm specific. What would you say is one of the number one challenges that e-commerce stores and marketers are facing right now?

Joe Glover
Well, we've covered an element of this already. So, you know, I think there's the e-commerce market beyond most is very data driven, you know, so I used to live in PPC land. But again, it's the same for us, for the social you know, they're driven by the numbers. And I think this is really, really exciting in a sense, because, you know, people have really nailed it these days. You know, they know what they're doing for the most part, you know, for the good ones. Then, you know, it is a game of optimization. But my fear is that it kind of removes the fun, the energy. Yeah. And I guess on one level, there's a warning there, which is, you know, the thing that makes you special, you have to keep on doing that rather than sort of over optimizing out your personality. And then, you know, the second thing for ecommerce market, as you know, is a wider context thing, which is like 2020/2021, we're in lockdown right now. The shops are shut. You know, there's a whole range of new dependencies on e-commerce arms for retailers, but then there's also e-commerce only brands. So, for example, Gymshark of course are smashing it. But then, you know, I think one of my favourite brands right now is a brand called Son of a Tailor, who are a outfit out of Denmark, and they offer like personalised clothing. So, for example, they will, they take a bunch of measurements from you and they've got an algorithm that matches that. And by the end, they give you a T-shirt that is designed to fit you and you only.

Richard Hill
Wow.

Joe Glover
So it is literally no longer to play on the cliche, no longer one size fits all. There are brands out there that are building clothes specifically for people, and not only that, they're building in elements of amazing service as well. So one of the things that some of the retailers there, again, as an example, but this is a wider thing, if the T-shirt doesn't fit that they send you based on their algorithm, they replace it for free, you know, and if that's the competition versus walking into a retailer where the shelves are messy and, you know, the store, everything's out of stock, you wonder which one you're going to go to. So there's some incredible competition, a lot of innovation, a lot of change. So it's exciting and terrifying to be in e-comm and retail, let's say, right now.

Richard Hill
Isn't it just isn't it just, terrifying and exciting?

Joe Glover
Spot on.

Richard Hill
Great, love it, love it. So going back to the community aspect, obviously we talked about, you know, that obviously we're going out there, we're just doing, you know, from your aspect or your your point of view and to joint point of view is, you know, you're creating and giving, but ultimately you've got that commercial aspect. What would you say some of the tips you could give about monetising a community? I know we're sort of saying, well, people will reach out when they're ready and, you know, they'll like you and they believe in your way of doing things, et cetera. But what are some of the ways to monetize a community?

Joe Glover
So the first thing I'd say is to take it slow. So The Marketing Meetup broke even for the first two years. Made a small profit for the third and then in the fourth and the fifth in this kind of exploded. So, you know, I think that John Esperian speaks of a 30 month mindset. And I'd really encourage folks to take a 30 month mindset before heading into more or less anything, to be honest, brand building wise. So I'd say that's the first thing. But then secondly, you've got to figure out your model. So my community grew into a business and remains a community, but also, you know, it's now monetized. So we started out with sponsorship as the main thing, and that was a need's must so we could put on the buffet at the events. And it just so happened that more people wanted to sponsor over the course of time. So that's how we added more revenue. The thought process being applied there is like, who are the people that can benefit from being exposed to my bunch of people that I'm bringing together? So in my case, it was recruiters. It was an organisation that would offer qualifications for marketers and folks like that, people who wanted to hire marketers. You know, all these people came in and sponsored The Marketing Meetup because they wanted access to that group of people. Secondly, we're seeing a trend right now of more premium content, you know, whether it's through Patreon and stuff like that. So we're going to be following a similar model very soon. So we're going to be launching our own membership element to the marketing meetup where we're building out what we're likening to a Netflix for marketers. So folks will be able to go in and sort of grab ten minute videos on very specific how to do stuff. So like that kind of solves the problem where folks are always like, you know, I wanna know how to do this thing. I want to know how to do it. I want to speak to the expert on doing it but I don't know how. So we're kind of filling that gap. And again, that's one example that would be like £10 a month. We were speaking about this before we went live. I'm very aware that there's a subscription overload in the world. So you really need to provide something that's so valuable that people want it. So what was spoken about? Sponsorship and we've spoken about sort of like more membership based things. I think lots and lots of ways. I mean, in effect, what you have when you've got a community is an audience. And if you've done it right, then you've got an audience that both forgives you for or thinks that you have their best interests at heart because you're wanting to help them and so are therefore receptive to it when you go to them and say, look, we've got these partners and they've got this offer for you. So then that builds out stuff like affiliates or, you know, training programs or workshops or whatever it may be. So there's a whole range of monetizing options. You've got to do the hard work first.

Richard Hill
Yeah. And I think the guys that are listening in, some of those different options will resonate with them in different ways sort of thing, so sponsorship and sort of, you know, tying in with with firms that that you can partner with something that'll resonate with a lot of people. A lot of our clients and our listeners do a lot with partnerships and sort of ambassador type programs and that type of thing. And then the lovely subscription models, you know, ten pounds a month, fifty pounds a month for the gym clubs of all the different ecommerce stores that are listening, how can you turn that into a subscription business? We talked about, I talked about that yesterday but subscription, I just I really push that, it's like the Holy Grail. I think, you know, it's that consistency of revenue, not as many peaks and troughs. And they just go and obviously but ultimately, you've got to get value, which is what we've talked about a lot throughout this whole podcast, no one is going to stay with you unless you're good at what you do and you have a genuine passion for delivering quality content that somebody can, you know, implement, or they're getting value from. So ultimately, you've got to give good content and build out that community. And you know that 30 month give, almost potentially, you know. But, yeah, some great takeaways there. Joe, thank you very much. So we're coming to a close. So I think one thing that really resonates with me talking to you is just how positive and how sort of the way your mind works, you know, what would you say? Well, what are some tips you would give or that you've built definitely in the last nine months? You know, it's crazy growth in your business. You know, how have you managed to stay so positive? I'm sure it's not the same all day, every day. But it's...

Joe Glover
It really isn't, you know, I'd say that, like so we're recording this in January and I'd say that, and so the back end of December last year, then I was in a, in a rough spot, you know, like I was knackered beyond belief and exhausted. And I let the news get on top of me and stuff like that. So but I think, you know, I'm not always positive. I think that's the first thing to say. That being said, I think there's a choice. Right. You know, and I think I just made a choice, a point. So, for example, this week when Boris announced lockdown number three, you know, I felt my chest get tighter, you know, and like my throat sort of just closed up, you know, and you could feel my breath sort of slowing down and getting a little bit more laboured. And it was in that moment, I was like, no, you know, I'm going to make a choice here. You know, I'm going to make a choice that this is not going to get on top of me. And I'm not saying that that's available to every person all the time. Yeah, but I do think there is a choice to make when you can, which is, you know what? I'm going to choose to be positive. Sometimes that's really hard because like, whenever you have a conversation with someone who's speaking about politics or whenever you have a conversation with someone speaking about like Covid, it's always doom and gloom. You know, like for whatever reason, I just choose not to engage in those conversations. It's like, yeah, you know, thank you for your opinion, but I'm going to move on, you know, and just don't let it get on top of you. So I think staying positive is much, much easier said than done. But I think there's something about trying to make a choice and then remind yourself that that's the choice you've made.

Richard Hill
You can definitely work on it. Obviously, it's not all day, every day you're going to be you know, we're humans or all of us. Yeah, but you decide...So do you listen to much news then or do you turn off to it quite a bit?

Joe Glover
I've got a, I've got a news ban in the house. I think this is about choice of consumption. I like, I do not, I've done my best to stop passively consuming content. So I've blocked a load of words on Twitter as well.

Richard Hill
Oh wow.

Joe Glover
Which is really, really, really positive because I love Twitter as a platform, but it can be poison for the mind likewise with the news and yeah. So, so I think I do my best to avoid it at all circumstances unless I choose to engage with it in which point and you make that choice. But again, it's a conscious act.

Richard Hill
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think there'll be a few people listening to that'll be like 'Right, Twitter, Brexit, Covid.'

Joe Glover
I'm happy to share my list of blocked words, there's a long list.

Richard Hill
Blocked keywords list, yeah, that's it turn off the news maybe once a week, twice a week when there's a big announcement or not. So even the big announcements, when you know there's going to be some big tier changes, you're on those or not?

Joe Glover
Well, you know, like I mean, what difference does it make? I mean, I'm sat here in a village right now, I go for a dog walk, I pick up my shopping once a week and that's pretty much the only time I've gone outside since March.

Richard Hill
Yeah you can still do that in tier 9 sort of thing. Yeah.

Joe Glover
Yeah, yeah exactly. You know. Yeah I think yeah. What difference does it make?

Richard Hill
Well thank you so much Joe. We always like to end every episode on a book recommendation.

Joe Glover
So before we came on we were speaking about books and I said that I'm purely on audio books. So the audio book, there's a few I mean, so like, the most interesting person in the world to me is like Barack Obama, I think he's amazing. So I've just finished his audio book.

Richard Hill
Autobiography. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Glover
So it's like twenty eight hours long, but it's an amazing audio book. I really enjoyed The Body by Bill Bryson, which has nothing to do with marketing, but I think just fascinating. And then marketing books, I'm sure there's loads. But, you know, we all read too many business books anyway.

Richard Hill
We've got plenty of them it's fine.

Joe Glover
Yeah, I think Bill Bryson, I really like that.

Richard Hill
It's funny I actually got the Barack Obama book for Christmas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a cracker. Yeah. That's on my list of to, get it on my desk next week. Yeah.

Joe Glover
Yeah. I think you should, you should go with it.

Richard Hill
Well thank you Jack. That's been an amazing forty five minutes. I really appreciate your time. Really appreciate you coming on the show. For the guys that are listening and want to find out more about The Marketing Meetup where's the best place to go to Joe?

Joe Glover
So they can go to themarketingmeetup.com and probably sign up for the newsletter or one of our webinars or indeed the membership once that goes live end of Jan, beginning of Feb.

Richard Hill
Keep an eye out for the membership. And thanks once again, Joe. It's been fantastic speaking to you.

Joe Glover
It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Richard Hill
Thank you.