E34: Eric Hilton

Richard Hill:
Hi and welcome to another episode of eComOne. And today's guest is Eric Hilton, CEO of Nutrapharma and MiNutra, whose focus is personalized nutrition and medicine. How are you doing, Eric?
Eric Hilton:
I'm good. Thank you, Richard. And, I've been waiting for this invitation for ages. Thank you for having me.
Richard Hill:
Now for those that don't know, which will be most of you, Eric is a sort of a partner and friend of the agency. I've known Eric for many years and we work on a lot of projects together. And I've been teasing Eric about coming on the podcast for a few months now, so here it is. And I wanted to get Eric on because Eric's got a lot of experience in a quite different industry, in terms of a lot of people we have on the podcast here, a lot about driving traffic and running eCommerce stores and eCommerce businesses. But this podcast is going to be a little bit different in that we're going to talk about different areas of business that we've maybe not focused on too much so far, and we'll see where it goes. So I think what would be good to kick off with, Eric, is to give us a bit of a background on Nutrapharma and MiNutra for the guys that are listening. Tell us about the companies and how they came about, and what they do. That would be great.
Eric Hilton:
Oh, wow. Have we got a few days?
Richard Hill:
Do the quick version.
Eric Hilton:
So, Nutrapharma spun out from a lot of experience I'd gained over in the pharmaceutical industry for well over 20 years in business development, sales and marketing, product specialism, and also in the realms of food's nutrition aspects. And I got invited to consult for a local company and help grow them phenomenally people-wise, employees, and turnover, and sales, and introductions, and quality process. I thought, "You know what? I can do that for myself." And so that consultancy then took shape of a laboratory that was being built over at Boole Technology Centre, where we based. And all the proceeds went to develop that and that's now a fully functional laboratory. We do research, we can do manufacturing, we've got tablet capsule, blister packing, mixing, powders, and all of that. And it is a legitimate manufacturing facility by definition. It's food registered. You can go to check it on Lincoln Council website, it's there, it's a facility. So that side of it is food, but we also do pharmaceutical research as well.
Eric Hilton:
So the MiNutra bit is a spin out from Nutrapharma. So MiNutra is a commercial entity and it has private investors that have backed it and that is a personalized nutrition device, which is now developing into a supply of personalized nutrition online. And I guess this is where we've done some R&D stuff together. For the audience, we needed to identify who our client is. And we did this with Richard's help looking at Google paid ads to see what the uptake would be and also Facebook to see what the kind of person would be interested in this. So, that helps us develop the product.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. So we've got two various specific businesses there, but with a thread of nutrition and medicine. So what Eric does there is, helps Nutra industry companies test products and make sure that they get the official legal stamp to be sold around the world and works for different companies that are manufacturing and creating to give them their approval and also manufacturers products to sell. But the quite exciting projects, well they're both very exciting, but the MiNutra side of the business, creating this personalized device that will sit in your home. Just something we've been involved with for a couple of years on the side. So I think helping you with the proof of concept, getting data from paid ads from potential users of the device, getting feedbacks that has been used to shape the flow of the roadmap of the product development, etc.
Richard Hill:
So quite an exciting or very exciting business. Proper scientist we've got on the podcast today, so great. So I think obviously a lot of our guests, they're eCommerce stores and we've got this sort of segue into eCommerce where you see health care and health products online, but specifically nutritional health products online are huge. So I what are your plans in terms of sort of selling your products via eCommerce? What would you say about that? Is that something that you're planning on doing is there from what I understand?
Eric Hilton:
So the MiNutra side is going to have an eCommerce platform with products tailored to you. Because of the device, we're trying to get the price down, and that needs some further research. And price is important, which we can talk about later, I guess. But we need to develop something that is interactive because the people who are buying it, the customer, the consumers, the people, that needs some wellness attributes, it needs some interaction, it needs to support you if you're a consumer and you're worried about your health. I mean, recent activities, current activities, whatever you want to call it. I don't want to use the C word, but, vitamin D has been mentioned about overcoming illness and you are what you eat and everyone forgets food is medicine at the end of the day. We're just trying to help in that respect, by having a platform for people to do that.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. So I guess, I think just to clarify for the listeners there, what Eric's created and in the process of delivering is a device that sits in your kitchen or your sports club, depending on your sort of personal use or more of maybe a commercial use, where you take a blood sample of, just like you get up in the morning and you go and make a nice fresh coffee or a coffee with the coffee machine, you go to this device, you take a blood sample of your blood, and it then will tell you what you need for that day, in terms of personalized nutrition and personalized medicine and will dispense that medicine. And that's what we're working towards.
Eric Hilton:
It is. And we developed with technology from Harvard university, where we met professor Peter Girgis, who is a Marine biologist. Nice little story behind this. He wanted to know what was coming out of the sea vents on the sea bed, in the Pacific Ocean, off the coast of California, and what was creating life there. And they developed a tool that went on their miniature submarine and assessed what was coming out of the vents. It was methane if anyone's curious. But I wanted to know what the tech was that they can identify that. Could we "sniff" what's in our blood. And if you could do that and translate that into a problem solving exercise, could you do that with biomarkers on a small scale? We can currently do that with huge pieces of kit, but we're talking the area of 400, 500,000 pounds for one of these things. You're going to have one of those in the kitchen.
Richard Hill:
They're not for a personal use.
Eric Hilton:
We're trying to get the finery down. What I'm trying to do now is re-engineer that tech that we have, because it's still a little bit expensive and we're trying to get it the price of a mobile phone. And we're just currently looking at some lab on a chip technology. Funnily enough, so the experts are based in Hull, so we can keep it local as well.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
Eric Hilton:
So we're looking at that. The personalized aspects before we can do the machine is to look at people's broader health, offer wellness solutions. So you can have an interactive website that says, "Hi. I'm Richard. I'm 21. I go to the gym." All of this. You were telling lies obviously. And-
Richard Hill:
I used to, but obviously now I'm locked down.
Eric Hilton:
And we want to get that data. We can perhaps do some artificial intelligence software with that, just a bit of maths.
Richard Hill:
So we've got a renal advanced tech business here on the podcast today. We're developing... I keep saying we're. I'm not. You are obviously but I've been working on some of the market research for you, with the agencies, but you're developing this product very, very, very high tech. And it uses some tech, this one we took four or 500,000 just an element of the tech. And then we're trying to build this device that's going to sit in everyone's homes in time. But then at the same respect, we're trying our hand with an eCommerce platform where you'll have this personal experience on an eCommerce platform, where you'll ask a series of questions and ultimately then get with the device, dispensed the correct medicine, if that's the right terminology, delivered to you.
Richard Hill:
Now, I think there's quite a lot of things there. My brain is just, poof. There's so many things. So many things. So I think when we think about innovation and health care, I think, they're two, two things that go very, very well together. And it's not an area I know that well, other than the projects we were with you on. But maybe, I think it'd be good. What else do you see that's coming in the next three to five years? We're talking about this personalized nutrition that you're developing, and you're working on, and I know you're a couple of years into this project, but what else do you see happening in the healthcare tech industry in the next, maybe three to five years? What can we expect?
Eric Hilton:
Well, we trying to stay in touch with the crystal ball gazing, whatever you want to call it, for the future. That's why we're doing the personalization because everyone's different. And there are added strands to this. And one is why don't you look at phenotyping? So the genetic testing, that that is something I've looked at, but we've parked, but the price of that's coming down now. It's about 20 pounds for a test where before it used to be 20,000 pound for a test. So you can see as things advance, look at your phone, in terms of advance, the price went down. And we're there and we're working with people on that. That will help somewhere like where are we are now and it can chat with the rural health care so that we can do things from a local level. So if you're based out in the sticks, you can just go to your GP, saves you a trip to the hospital.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. So location.
Eric Hilton:
Yeah. And if there's something wrong, really seriously, then you can go to the hospital and do more investigative tests. Whereas you don't necessarily where it will just be a nice screen and do it that way. And we're trying to incorporate all of that into the broader aspect of research within that arena and things like the microbiome. So you've got metabolism. I mentioned that we're looking at more specific biomarkers, but we're also looking at co crystals, which is a bit of chemistry that is more simple than you may imagine. And it's just to redefine the molecule in a way that's better absorbed. So we're currently working again with one of the universities partners on developing a product that we know is a food that has massive antioxidant properties, and this will help because currently you'd have to take spoonful’s of this stuff to get any result because your body doesn't readily absorb it. But what we've done is develop a co crystal, which means you can absorb it easily.
Eric Hilton:
And that means you get a better therapeutic effect from a food. And that's why in the name of our company is Nutrapharma. Pharma with a pharmaceutical, pharmacist angle. So we're trying to develop that more. So it's all about the science.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
Eric Hilton:
So the three to five years we need to have the science. It also has to have some value alignment or adjustment within that. So it's people understand, take it on board. There's that customer relationship interaction. You don't want to be preached to. And nobody does, but you want to have something. If I've got a question, you can put it in. And that's what this platform we're trying to develop is all about.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. It's not two ways. If there's options, there's this back and forth.
Eric Hilton:
All of that.
Richard Hill:
It's personalized. It's not right this is it. And this is where it was reaching to you. And this is the one hit, more than one thing is personalized.
Eric Hilton:
Allergies. All of that, if that, then if you understand what the value adjustment and the alignment is, you can then give some consumer guidance. Yeah. And this is guidance. It's not preaching. We're not a doctor. We're not saying you must. It's choice at the end of the day. But if there's a feedback system, and we can say there's more nutritional value in this or you can supplement your pizza with this and you will have a better outcome in your lifestyle.
Richard Hill:
Brilliant. So I think, when you first mentioned to me, probably two years ago, right? I've got this idea-
Eric Hilton:
Three years ago.
Richard Hill:
Is it three years ago? Crikey. I've got this idea where I see a device like a coffee machine sitting in everybody's kitchen. And you literally do a thumb prick test, blood test, and then Bosch, you're getting dispensed your vitamin C, your vitamin this, that, and the other. I was like, "This guy is nuts, but that's just genius at the same time." It's quite a close call. Isn't it? That's just an amazing idea, real big thinking. But obviously now I know you're three years into that journey. I know that you've got various prototypes. The technology is all coming together but behind that you've had some fairly large investment, your own money and obviously different monies in different pots.
Richard Hill:
And I think for the guys listening to the podcast it's quite an interesting area, funding your business and funding that idea. Whether you're just starting with an idea, and trying to get somebody to buy into the idea and actually part with money and tens and hundreds of thousands of pounds or millions of pounds in this instance as well. So, the guys that are listening in, what advice would you give them on ways to get funded and secure funding? What's available to businesses out there? And I know there's a lot of different ways and different size in pots.
Eric Hilton:
There is Richard. Some people say, "Oh, it's the same amount of paperwork for a couple of grand than it is for 100,000 pounds." And it more or less is because you've got to tick the boxes, make it proper, so do things correct for the applications. We're fortunate that we're in this sector that is supported heavily, especially by the UK government, UK research Institute, the Innovation UK, the Smart Grants, so that it's heavily invested and it always has been.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. You quite fortunate in that respect, aren't you? That your industry, healthcare-
Eric Hilton:
We have, and we've worked in partnership when one of our recent projects was with pharmaceuticals, looking at a novel tablet coating machine using laser technology.
Richard Hill:
Wow.
Eric Hilton:
And that again was supported by the UK Innovation research budget. But you can do local. You can apply for any local grant. We've had some IT stuff paid for. I know and every penny counts and it all helps for the pot.
Richard Hill:
So for the local, where's the best place for guys to maybe find out what's available to them on a local level?
Eric Hilton:
From the Lincolnshire Quality Council, Business Lincolnshire website.
Richard Hill:
But on a national level. Their local authority.
Eric Hilton:
Yeah. UK Innovation. They have a number of call-outs that are put out to there. I think if you talk with your local university professor or senior lecturers, they will have some ideas within your area. If you've got an idea and you can do that together because universities desperately want to work with business and business needs their resource and intelligence. I don't know the answers to everything. So it's all about developing those partnerships.
Richard Hill:
So university, local authority.
Eric Hilton:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. And what about say my private investment.
Eric Hilton:
So there's the angel investment network. That's the new one that's just set up for those that are local to Lincoln. That is based luckily enough in my building at the Boole Technology Centre.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
Eric Hilton:
You can Google that or with other the search engines available you could search-
Richard Hill:
We'll link it all up, but believe it or not, Eric, this podcast is not just listened to with people from Lincolnshire, there's actually worldwide... We have, literally, hundreds of listeners that are, believe it or not every episode, that are out of the county. What would you say to those guys that are not they're not specific? We can go to our local authorities, but I'm quite intrigued and there's more interested in this of angel investment. There is a network out there.
Eric Hilton:
There are networks. Plural. There's local ones. It's like land councils. They spread and then they go national.
Richard Hill:
Yes.
Eric Hilton:
National ones. One that I've done the circuit round for was Minerva. And that's based out of Warwick Business School.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
Eric Hilton:
And they have a network. There are other networks like that available too. You can also go it alone and do a crowdfund, which I constantly thought about.
Richard Hill:
You see that more and more, don't you, I think. Well, I have seen various-
Eric Hilton:
Nothing's free. There's always a fee involved with that, but it helps you get your cash to do what you need to do.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Hilton:
I've met a couple of my investors by accident and bank systems say, you make your own look. And this was one of those cases where you go to a networking event, when you could, and sit down next to somebody and speak to them and you exchange cards and they're interested in what you do and that's happened to be on the TrackPay. They're my investors, who's a brilliant guy. And also, Warren Baxton from an overseas investor who invited me overseas to go meet some friends of his that would like to invest. But unfortunately, we're COVIDed out again. So we're just waiting-
Richard Hill:
So it's the two options there then.
Eric Hilton:
There's plenty. And it's just speak to people. On the MiNutra website, we have an investors page there, if you're interested, and any size of investment helps and you get a percentage of the company for that. If you have to be an offer, it's a win, win you can take aspect.
Richard Hill:
I would also say there's obviously a lot of different options that you've got. That local side, obviously in your own County, if you're in the UK. Or in your own area, if you further afield around the world there will be hubs of pots of funding available, obviously there's different pots available, very specific to what's going on right now in pandemic, which is slightly different, but still funding is available there. But depending on what industry you're in, obviously if you're in nutraceuticals and medicine, there's a lot more funding, therefore that's an area you're obviously very familiar with, but then, there's these private networks, these private investment clubs and where you can go and pitch your idea and pitch your... bit like Dragon's Den and in fact exactly like Dragon's Den, isn't it?
Eric Hilton:
It is. Yeah. But nicer.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. So I think we'll link up in the show notes. The guys that are listening, we'll link up in the show notes. Obviously, a few of the things we've mentioned there, but a lot of different ways to look at investing. So we getting investment. So obviously knowing you as I do, knowing you from this crazy idea, and I know it's not crazy, but it's just a big thinking, isn't it? Which is great. I think it's like my team. I walk in my office and it's like, "Oh God, what're they thinking?" "Oh my God, what's Richard doing?" What we be doing next?" And according to these ideas, and I think this is where you get these ideas and then implementing these ideas and scaling something. And I know you've got a lot of experience in scaling and building businesses and helping other people build their business. Now, what would you say? What's some advice you give to people about growing their business and scaling their business.
Eric Hilton:
That a tricky question, Richard. I'll try and be concise. Because we're probably predominantly a research innovation and supply company. So we need to research and find stuff, new things. It's a bit like fishing. You can't just have one line. You've got to cast different lines out. So we currently have about 10, 11 projects that are on the go at the moment. And that's everything from cosmetics, a new hair product that I'm dealing with, with a client, to a new patch or transdermal vitamins and stuff that goes through your skin, just to name a couple that we're working with and offering products for. So it's covering all of those and then when one succeeds, like the MiNutra one, is scaling it up. And when I've worked with clients before we've had, we call it the four P's and people say it's the four P's of marketing, but it's not, it's the four P's for everything.
Eric Hilton:
And the four PS are products. You need to have the right product. Something that is in our case, innovative, new wow factor. And people say, "Yeah, that looks cool. We want that." So developing our products. And then of course it's the price. And that's our sticking point at the moment. It's just coming in at 15,000 US dollars to make one machine. So we've got to bring that right down to 1,000 dollars. We are around that euros, whatever. And so we were having to reformulate that price part. Another part is the people. So people can be your consumers or the people involved at the interface of your product. And in our case, it would be that the wellness, consumer wellness, what all of those people want in that aspect. But another one that is key and often forgotten is the partnerships. So we've worked together and I value you as a company and you as an individual, as a partner in my business.
Eric Hilton:
I have a designer that you and I have both worked with in the past and currently who's also a partner in the business, and there's a couple of projects that we've got at the moment where we're turning wonky carrots that people don't want from Waitrose and Tesco's and there are other supermarkets as well that don't have wonky stuff into nutritional shakes.
Eric Hilton:
And we're currently working, again I couldn't do this work without a partner, and that they've developed all this amazing technological stuff, so to produce powders for me. And it's a first, because they're all from the UK. And just to let you in on a secret, a lot of these nutritional supplements that they say they're made in the UK, but all the ingredients are from overseas.
Richard Hill:
So they're made in the UK but the ingredients-
Eric Hilton:
... are from overseas. And there's some question marks as to if they are as good as they say they are. What we're trying to do is keep it local. And this is a new thing that isn't currently available. And, again, it's trying to get those partnerships being innovative in that arena, that is crucial for how we operate. It's getting that, right.
Richard Hill:
It's a thread I've seen through a lot of the podcast episodes and a lot of the people that we've spoken to, obviously it's a great, but 4 P's and that partnership piece and I think it comes back to having that. Just stepping out there and speaking to people and pushing and having that confidence to... You've got to start somewhere. I think people will be listening in saying, well, I couldn't go out there and speak to such and such and speak and do that. Well, you can. You got to start with that first step, if you like, those that are starting out more so, or a little bit reticent of stepping up and speaking to the right people. Think at the end of the day, they're just like you. They want to crack off and do well. And so-
Eric Hilton:
And if you can share a little bit of that with them. 100% of nothing is nothing, If you're willing to share bit of it you've got a lot more than you had.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. It's funny. I had a situation, not situation, but just we have the start of a partnership and they reached out to me. Just out of the blue last week somebody reached out to me. They have a very successful digital marketing agency, but they're more on the development side of things, technical development. When they reached out to me I knew what are they working on. Then I offered to help him with our SEO team. But then we got chatting about various things and it turns out we've got a lot in common, and a lot of different things that we can help each other with. And literally just yesterday, somebody asked me, do I know somebody that does X, Y, Z. And I was like, "A guy I spoke to yesterday." So I messaged him last night and said, "Oh, can you do such and so?" He's like, "Absolutely." So just him reaching out to me, and it's for his benefit initially. But obviously I'm a big believer in it all comes round.
Eric Hilton:
It does.
Richard Hill:
I'm a massive believer in it. We'll do a lot of their work. For him, for Andy that's a couple of days, but a lot in the first instance, but we will then now start to build this relationship, this partnership, and I would agree, my business, I have the four P's. Obviously that's all very, very important, but that partnership piece. It's been key for me and that longevity in a business, just doing right by people with the right people. It always comes round. We see a lot of people coming and going, and definitely in my industry, big sort of flash sort of but then it's like, "How did they actually work? And how did they deliver on what they said they were going to do? Did they actually do what they promised and was it just a big sales job on you?" That type of thing.
Eric Hilton:
You don't want to be mugged.
Richard Hill:
No. So having those strong partnerships, but to have those partnerships, where you got to best deliver and trustworthy and everything that goes with it.
Eric Hilton:
Yeah. And I've had that before, people were saying, "Oh yeah, you want to do eCommerce? Well, that's going to take you ages." Well, yes, it will take you ages. But it's one of those, if it's right, I'm a big believer again of getting it right first time-
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Cheapest way of doing anything.
Eric Hilton:
And it's not easy. Gosh if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. And we all know that. So it's one of those, you accept constructive criticism. But those that think you're a fool then I haven't got time.
Richard Hill:
No. So the four P's is been one of your go-to for scaling.
Eric Hilton:
Yeah.
Richard Hill:
So obviously you've been in business awhile. You can go a bit like myself, but what would you say when we get a bit personal with a few questions now. We always like to change direction a little bit on the podcast and catch you off guard a little bit, but tell us about something that fundamentally changed who you are or changed direction, or we have these life experiences, I believe that we can look back on. What would you say is something that's fundamentally changed you are Eric?
Eric Hilton:
Yeah. Okay. I have a massive personal one that is too long to talk about. That's one for if you can't sleep, I'll be able to talk you to sleep.
Richard Hill:
Extended edition. Yeah.
Eric Hilton:
But a recent one that has made me do a recheck is I was diagnosed with a tumour in my head and that wasn't nice to hear. I'd gone into the doctor's with a problem breathing. Turns out, I had COVID. The weirdness of that. But that was before COVID had even hit the news. It's been around a lot longer than we know people. So I went to the doctor, waking up, couldn't breathe in the night. And whilst I was there, I said to the doctor, "I'm not feeling 100% percent. I'm going to the gym and exercising, eating right. But there's still a little bit of puppy fat in the wrong places and that's worrying me." And if you getting to age now that your body's not quite doing what he should be doing, so I just asked if we could have a bit of a health check as a male HRT type scenario.
Eric Hilton:
And she agreed. "That would be great idea." She said, "But I'm going to refer you." So I got referred and the doctor said, "I just want to check that everything's working okay. I'm going to do an MRI scan." And that is when I the tumour on my... Apparently, it's the best tumour you can get, which is no consolation.
Richard Hill:
I can see the show now.
Eric Hilton:
If you want a tumour? This is the one in your head, so Yeah. It's just above my pituitary gland.
Richard Hill:
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So a real wake-up call.
Eric Hilton:
I wouldn't say wake up, it's almost you know that your time is limited. It was more of a realization that you know what, stop messing about. Value things that you should value, your family, your children. If you want to spend more time at work, there's no rules, do it. Just obviously if you've got kids and stuff, then maybe not, but if you still want to do that, then that's you're going to have to focus on that more and give up those other things.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
Eric Hilton:
So it's not to be selfish, but it's one of those to just do a life check. So it's a life check.
Richard Hill:
Is step back, look up-
Eric Hilton:
It's hard to put into words, Richard. It really is.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. I can see.
Eric Hilton:
It's a wobble. It's one of those. And you get mobiles in life. You ask anyone who's been successful. Was it a straight line? And answer is no. It's up and down, didn't expect that. Duh, duh, duh. Life, unfortunately, it's how you handle those that defines you. But it's okay to have a wobble as I found. And everyone was worried and I was too, because when you work in the industry You know those things.
Richard Hill:
Yeah.
Eric Hilton:
I'm on treatment now, which touch wood is shrinking it, which is great. But it made me do a check to say, am I doing the right things with what I'm doing? Am I happy with what I'm doing? Am I spending time doing the things I want to at home with my nearest and dearest and the answer is yes. But it makes you do a check and that isn't wrong for you to check. It also tells you that there's more people worse than you are. And there's also more people better than you are better off if you want to call it. And that's okay.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. You ahead if it is okay.
Eric Hilton:
You know what? It doesn't matter. I guess one of the things that came out of that was if you're happy, not happy with your lot, but if you're okay in your own little bubble, that is cool. And I feel sorry now for a lot of youngsters who are influenced by social media, by influences, because that's what they are, that they are trying to elude them into false insecurity, that this should be attainable when really, it isn't.
Richard Hill:
It's a lifestyle.
Eric Hilton:
A lifestyle all of that. If you're happy with what you got then that's cool.
Richard Hill:
Wow. Well, that's a real share, Eric. Thank you for sharing that on the podcast today. That's a real share.
Eric Hilton:
Yeah. Everyone has issues and problems and stuff like that sometimes. It's okay to talk about them. I am not looking for sympathy. You are dealt a hand.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for that. So, okay. So who would you say has been your biggest inspiration in your business or in your life today?
Eric Hilton:
I wouldn't single out any one individual because there's been lots of nuggets from people. And I admire people that have been humble in what they do. So you've got your multimillionaire, who's a philanthropist who has accrued all this money and then gives it away, but doesn't seek recognition for it. And I think Warren Buffet falls into that category. I don't necessarily agree with some of the investments that he's made, but I certainly agree that he's made a shit load of money and he's given it away. I do appreciate people that don't seek the limelight for stuff like that. But when you find out and you go, wow, what a person, that's great.
Eric Hilton:
Or people that embrace them and get the most out of them. I think somebody that comes to mind just recently, for those that you follow football or not, Yurgen Klopp, he's the manager of Liverpool. As a people person, you can see that he's sincere. And 100% of people that have met him have said, "What a sincere guy." And that is nice. And it's just to be, you can be nice. You can be horrible but being nice.
Richard Hill:
Yeah, No. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I always like to finish every episode with a book recommendation Eric? I think we've had a lot of great books in the last, I think we're on episode 32, your episode will be 32, I believe. Have I got that right. What book recommendation would you suggest to our listeners?
Eric Hilton:
Woof. I'm going to give you two because I've just put a request in for a book for Christmas, that I've read there's some good write-ups for, and of all people it's Dan Brown, and it's this new book, Happy. So I recommend that even though I've not read it yet, but that's one for the Christmas list. But I know I want to read it because of its content. It touches on some of the aspects that I've mentioned today. But one book was given to me by one of my senior managers when I was starting off as a medical rep back at AstraZeneca. And he and couple of others were invited to one of these development days. And we were at the bar, we were chatting away and he gave me this book and I read it and it was brilliant and it was quite inspirational. And it's called Touching the Void by Joe Simpson.
Eric Hilton:
And it's almost autobiographical. And it's a movie now. Some people might've have seen the movie, but the difference between a movie and a book I find is that you don't get the thoughts. Without giving too much away, these two guys were climbing up in the Peruvian Andes and things got a little bit wrong, and it's how they coped and survived what was a traumatic experience and how they had the inner will to stay alive and what their thought processes were in all of that. And it's a really good read. Touching the Void by Joe Simpson. Semi-autobiographical drama.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. I actually think I've watched the film.
Eric Hilton:
The book will give you the insight.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. Well, I've watched a film with a very similar-
Eric Hilton:
You would have seen it.
Richard Hill:
Yeah. I think I have. Well, Eric, thank you so much for being a guest on eComOne. That's a, that's a very personal episode there, but I think that was some great takeaways. I think a lot of our listeners, I know personally, it will very much resonate with a lot of the topics that we touched on, thank you for being a guest. And I look forward to catching up with you again soon.
Eric Hilton:
Yeah. And hopefully we can tell you what about when launch date is next time we say, and how much money moves spent on eCommerce.
Richard Hill:
Well, hopefully we'll be getting you back on then. We will get it booked in six months’ time. We will have you on for round two.
Eric Hilton:
Thank you Richard.
Richard Hill:
Thanks Eric. Thank you.
Eric Hilton:
Bye.